#4 The Rise of Larks Entertainment: How Curt Skallerup is Revolutionizing Family Fun

In this episode of Restaurant Leaders Unplugged, host Sebastian Stahl sits down with Curt Skallerup, a leader in the family entertainment industry and the visionary behind Larks Entertainment. Curt’s transition from the corporate world to opening and managing over 100 entertainment centers across the U.S. is packed with lessons for aspiring business owners and seasoned entrepreneurs alike.

Join us as Curt discusses:

• His journey from corporate boardrooms to expanding multiple franchise concepts.
• The key to selecting the right franchise partners for long-term success.
• Why focusing on customer experience and volume can drive substantial business growth.
• Insights on leadership and how he motivates his team while scaling operations.
• The story behind Larks Entertainment, a modular franchise concept tailored to bring affordable family fun to communities nationwide.

Curt's experience in franchising, team leadership, and maintaining growth amidst challenges makes this episode a must-listen for anyone looking to expand their business. Learn from Curt’s approach to growth, leadership, and the future of family entertainment in this insightful conversation!

Restaurant Leaders Unplugged with Sebastian Stahl

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Transcript

Sebastian Stahl (00:00.082)

Okay, well Curt thank you so much for being here again. Thank you so much for your time and being in the Restaurant Leaders and Plug podcast. It's a pleasure to have you.

Curt (00:11.545)

Thank you. I appreciate it, Sebastian. Thanks for having me.

Sebastian Stahl (00:14.298)

Alright, so Curt, let's go to the beginning because I mean you have a very interesting career to say the least and I would love to just listen, you know, how you got started, you know, and what really inspired you first, you know, to get into, I know you have a different background from entertainment, right, and franchises but so tell me a little bit about that process and how you got started and into the entertainment business, into franchising business. Just tell me a little bit about your story.

Curt (00:41.613)

Yeah, yeah. Well, it's the most unlike as most stories you probably hear. It's the most unlikely story because I have no no interest in being an entrepreneur. absolutely I absolutely loved the the boardrooms and I was with a company called Rider based in Miami for 30 years. Loved all the turmoil and all the yelling and screaming and all that good stuff. And and I literally really enjoyed my career.

And I ended up retiring just after 30 years and ran and left to go run a couple other companies. And quite frankly, a neighbor came up about 2011 and said, Hey, my son was at this trampoline park and, he thought it was a great thing. And Hey dad, you should open it. And it was a neighbor that I knew, you know, kind of not very well. At the end of the day, he took me to dinner. said, Hey, Kurt, look, you need to, we need to do something like this. Number one, I don't know who you are.

Sebastian Stahl (01:12.519)

Hmm.

Curt (01:38.06)

I don't know your business acumen and I kind of just poo pooed it. A year later he comes back and says, hey, we really need to do this. I'm running a company out on the East coast. And I took a couple of days. We went and looked at a facility and decided to give it a shot. And just for family, just kind of a side thing, I was going to stay in corporate world. By 2000, really 12 or 13,

Sebastian Stahl (01:44.027)

Hmm.

Sebastian Stahl (01:55.833)

Mm. Mm -hmm.

Curt (02:05.132)

We ended up getting one open and we thought we'd have three or four for the family. And at the end of the day, minute we opened one, we opened a second one, a third one, 18 more, 20 more, and it just really, really hooked on. So we ended up being a strong brand in that segment.

Sebastian Stahl (02:21.298)

And so how did you, know, okay, so then you were, you know, successfully opened over 90 altitude trampoline parks, I understand. And so, you know, from all of that journey and that part of your career, what do think are your biggest lessons that you took away from other experience? mean, you weren't even considering getting entrepreneurship. So what are some of the things that you learned and that you're applying now to Larks Entertainment with the new concept?

Curt (02:50.602)

I think probably the biggest thing that because we do this other consulting with other new franchise or the thing I tell everybody and by the way, we ended up having 118 facilities in eight countries by the way. So that was exciting. But we ended up the two things are picking your right partners for your franchisee franchisees and really, really we would really get to know them. We would spend what we call discovery days.

Sebastian Stahl (03:03.057)

Wow.

That's incredible.

Sebastian Stahl (03:13.35)

Hmm.

Curt (03:19.497)

And we would spend days with them making sure that they were a good fit for us and they were good. We just didn't want to let everybody join. and we ended up having a very high success rate and low failure rate because I think, and I think that the, the formula is the people that you pick really make the difference at the, at the field level, at the store level. and, I want to be able to call them. I'm a 24 hour seven guy. They would call me anytime. Even.

Sebastian Stahl (03:24.859)

Mmm.

Sebastian Stahl (03:33.543)

Hmm.

Sebastian Stahl (03:41.594)

No. Hmm.

Curt (03:47.913)

Five years after we sold it, talked to 75 % of those franchisees. And again, we sell it. We became relationship friends and all the rest of that. The other thing is that the biggest thing is all the legal mumbo jumbo that goes along with franchising. Very, very aware of what that is. And we talk a lot about that when we get new people involved.

Sebastian Stahl (03:52.935)

Thank

Sebastian Stahl (03:57.626)

Mmm.

Sebastian Stahl (04:07.025)

Hmm.

Sebastian Stahl (04:13.168)

Sure, sure. It's super interesting that you say that because I mean, think that's with a lot of businesses, right? And how to select the right people that you're going to work with. What I found is there needs to be alignment in many things, right? Especially in values, because if not, then there's gonna be a discrepancy. So what's your take on that? How did you go about selecting franchisees?

Curt (04:37.768)

I could not agree with you more, Sebastian. One of the things, I don't a couple of months ago you were talking about, and I know you've got children, and I turned 64 here next week. And one of the things, even at 64, is that you ever watch your kids, when they get so excited, they get that little lump in their stomach, and they get all the excitement, and it's the best view that you can see. Well, I believe that we still have that as we get older. And I think that...

Sebastian Stahl (04:58.512)

Yeah.

Sebastian Stahl (05:02.919)

Hmm.

Curt (05:05.735)

I like to see that glow or thing in their stomach prior to getting them to sign on with us. If they're that enthusiastic, that's going to shine through to every one of your customers. We ended up having 29 million individual customers in those 118 stores. And of those, that's where we got all our new franchisees. They came in, they had a great time. And then we passed on that value or that excitement to the next person. And they set up.

Sebastian Stahl (05:12.271)

Hmm.

Sebastian Stahl (05:23.025)

Right.

Sebastian Stahl (05:33.734)

Hmm.

Curt (05:34.918)

Every store we opened, we'd get 50 leads of a new store.

Sebastian Stahl (05:38.352)

Hmm. Wow. That's amazing. Right.

Curt (05:39.597)

So I agree more. Again, the other thing to cap that point is, is I think as we get into business, I think we all take ourselves way too seriously. fun is kind of the name of the day. Take care of your business. something we'll talk a little later. Take care of business, but laugh a little bit too. Life is not that hard.

Sebastian Stahl (05:50.652)

Huh.

Hmm.

Sebastian Stahl (06:01.666)

that's a really good thing to learn, which is hard sometimes, you know, because it seems so serious. But I'm sure as you get older, right, you start seeing things in a different perspective.

Curt (06:03.936)

Thank

Curt (06:13.259)

I think so, and I'm a little hyper anyway, so I like to be enthusiastic all the time.

Sebastian Stahl (06:20.53)

Yeah, definitely, definitely. so, Kirk, I know you have a background also in finance, you know, and how did that influence your approach, you know, to starting and scaling the business and, you know, in this entertainment business?

Curt (06:34.357)

Sebastian, as you know, we've talked off site here is that I have a book coming out probably in December and really based on math or I call it volume. And the name of that side is called Volume Solutions. And the name of the book is basically Volume, the Pathway, the Profit. I don't know if that's going to be the title, and math, finance.

Sebastian Stahl (06:41.5)

Mm -hmm. Yep.

Sebastian Stahl (06:48.06)

Hmm.

Sebastian Stahl (06:56.571)

Hmm.

Curt (07:02.058)

And I'm not talking statistic. I'm not talking trigonometry. I'm talking math is the core to everything that we do. And one of the things I use, Sebastian and trying to be brief is the fact that, when, when Rolls Royce creates a business plan, it's based on math numbers and finance and numbers. And the definition that, that Rolls Royce has for their business plan is to sell, by the way, I'm making these numbers up, so nobody needs to take this.

Sebastian Stahl (07:17.872)

Mm.

Sebastian Stahl (07:29.168)

Yeah.

Curt (07:30.82)

sell 3 ,500 Rolls Royces a month. And if they do that, they cover overhead and all the factories and all the things that they've got. And however, Ford, same business. They make cars. They have to sell 350 ,000 cars to cover their overhead. So the math around what they do is all simple. It's just bigger. It's bigger work. So my argument or one of the things that I've taken is

Sebastian Stahl (07:33.764)

Mm -hmm.

Sebastian Stahl (07:51.021)

Mm. Mm -hmm.

Curt (07:58.435)

is that in our business, high fixed low variable business, math and volume will make you more money. And last comment is I'd much rather make 10 % of $100 million and 50 % of a million. And many people feel the opposite. They want to get margin. And again, not to get too technical, but margin is so high up on a P &L, it's not money. Margin is an indicator. It's not cash.

Sebastian Stahl (08:15.333)

Hmm.

Sebastian Stahl (08:24.41)

Hmm. That's a great point. That's a great point. And so, Kurt, now, know, kind of here going to talk a little bit about Lark's Entertainment and this is your new project, of course. And tell me a little bit about this new project you have going on. I know that you already have, of course, one location open. The next one's opening very soon. And I want you to tell me not just about the concept, but it's a very interesting structure that you guys have.

the modular franchise concept, which is pretty unique. So walk me a little bit about, know, walk me through that.

Curt (08:56.898)

Absolutely. And thank you for mentioning that. And I don't think we shared with you that we have a second one open in Cleveland, by the way. So we two open and three opening. But we have the modular franchising was born out of kind of our past business dealings. When we would go to franchise shows and different meetings around the country, we noticed that we would

Sebastian Stahl (09:06.011)

Hmm.

Curt (09:24.961)

talk about a franchisee candidate and we met a hundred people at a show, they'd all be excited. They want to do their thing. The challenge with the trampoline park is it's, you know, it's a $3 million investment. So you have all these people excited. They want to get engaged and only three can afford it. So they walk away and they say, Hey, you know, what can we afford? And after several of these things in England and other places that we went,

Sebastian Stahl (09:31.114)

Mm

Sebastian Stahl (09:38.737)

Peace.

Sebastian Stahl (09:45.008)

Mm.

Curt (09:53.536)

you know, it's kind of an aha moment. said to our, I said, you know, we need to come up with franchises that can give people that have less money, more people, many more people, many people have less money than more people have more money. And, and so we wanted to create this modular franchising. So if in fact you had $250 ,000, we could go to some of our SBA lenders and get you 700 fusion three to one, $750 ,000 in loan.

Sebastian Stahl (09:55.975)

Hmm.

Sebastian Stahl (10:08.358)

Right.

Curt (10:21.728)

And we could put you in this size of franchise. 500 ,000, we could get you a million five, you could get this size. And so we wanted to create different opportunities for different cash values for families. And depending on where, what, how, and what real estate we could be, we actually said, if you have X amount of dollars, you can put a full kitchen in. If X amount of dollars, we would rather have a cafe. If you're in...

Sebastian Stahl (10:24.291)

Mm -hmm.

Sebastian Stahl (10:37.157)

Right.

Curt (10:49.307)

a very religious part. cannot have alcohol. can just have maybe. So we literally was allowed to like a menu. So I want appetizers. I'm going to have this. Every, every large comes with food and alcohol and an arcade. But then you get to open up and say, look, I think I'm going to have for lunch. I'll have this for dinner. I'll have this and so on and so forth.

Sebastian Stahl (10:52.849)

Right.

Sebastian Stahl (10:59.644)

Mmm.

Sebastian Stahl (11:10.47)

Right, that's fantastic. So tell me in a nutshell, what's Larks Entertainment about? Like the actual concept? Because I know if you were talking about here the concept and like the majority of concept of franchising, but what is Larks for the people that don't know?

Curt (11:24.072)

So Largs Entertainment as a whole is an active entertainment or entertainment place and not to give advertising dollars, but it's like a affordable Dave and Buster's and Dave and Buster's and Main Event, they've got great concepts. The challenge is that it's very hard to have everybody afford what that's gonna be. Our concept was we're gonna create a great experience and you can come in and

Sebastian Stahl (11:35.109)

Hmm.

Sebastian Stahl (11:46.982)

Hmm.

Curt (11:51.55)

You can play shuffleboard, you can play arcade, can play something called gel blasters, which is for kids. You can play miniature golf in some of our plays. One can have miniature golf, another one can have shuffleboard, another one can have this arena that we're putting together, obstacle courses together. So depending on what you feel you want to do, we can put in there. We've got this basketball concept we've got, or you can put a myriad of everything together.

Sebastian Stahl (11:56.838)

Yeah.

Sebastian Stahl (12:01.222)

Hmm.

Sebastian Stahl (12:09.468)

Yeah. Yeah.

Sebastian Stahl (12:20.37)

That's fantastic. So you could basically build the larks to fit your local market. just depends on the audience that you have.

Curt (12:27.261)

It's exactly what it is. It's exactly what it is. And what allows us to do, Sebastian, since you asked that, it allows us to, everyone goes to Chicago and Dallas and Miami, but it allows us to get into tertiary markets where most opportunities don't come to people at one franchisee. We can build a 10 ,000 square foot one and have people make money. We don't have to have 50 ,000 square feet. So that's the goal.

Sebastian Stahl (12:41.008)

Hmm

Sebastian Stahl (12:48.786)

Right, right, right. And so you're emphasizing here, of course, the affordability, you know, and the phone at large, you know, it's just the offerings. Why do you think that combination resonates so much, you know, with today's market and consumers in general in the U .S.?

Curt (13:07.164)

I think a lot of it has to do is I think people certainly, I think a little bit pre COVID, but post COVID, I think everyone's tired of getting up and going to the office and, doing their thing and working for the man. If, you know, I mean, I mean that to be funny, but, I think people have a lot more. And that's the great thing about the U S is the entrepreneurial spirit and the ability to get financing and loans here is unlike the other country that we've done business with. you go to Europe and there is no SBA. There's a process.

Sebastian Stahl (13:20.785)

Yeah

Sebastian Stahl (13:33.489)

Yeah.

Curt (13:37.104)

but you have a lot of cash to get in. You get into South America. And not that you can't do that, but it's really more family money. In the United States, if you're able to put some money together, you literally can start your own business, whether it's selling yarn or entertainment or a restaurant. That's the opportunity that we want to lean into.

Sebastian Stahl (13:40.198)

Hmm.

Sebastian Stahl (13:53.297)

Hmm.

Sebastian Stahl (13:57.114)

Right, And, Kurt, you've mentioned a couple of course games and experiences that Lark's offers in terms of attractions. I know there's a couple of very unique ones, you know, like Game of a Thousand Boxes and, you know, of course, Gel Blasters, which is another really cool game. Can you talk to us a little bit about those experiences?

Curt (14:16.858)

I can, and although we're really gonna move to work on changing the thousand boxes name, because it doesn't really depict what it is, it's really a on steroids. It's a entertainment venue in some of our facilities. It's a four -screen by 15, and it has hundreds and up to a thousand different games that you can play.

Sebastian Stahl (14:28.677)

Yeah.

Sebastian Stahl (14:36.967)

Mm -hmm.

Sebastian Stahl (14:44.849)

Wow.

Curt (14:45.498)

And it was created through some young man out in New York. And literally it is podiums, either four, six, or eight podiums. And you get participants that children can play, or adults can play, or the guy at the night can play. And all you gotta do is push a button. And you're competing against other, and not only that, it's hard to describe, but if you've got 24 people playing,

Sebastian Stahl (15:00.998)

Yeah. Right.

Curt (15:12.825)

These 12 play the other 12 literally on the event. And then you've got an MC that is kind of boasting you on, kind of a comedian that is saying, hey, you suck or you're great or you know. It's a really fun, engaging type of game.

Sebastian Stahl (15:15.609)

Mmm.

Sebastian Stahl (15:20.06)

Right.

Sebastian Stahl (15:24.358)

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Sounds really fun. Of course, hard to describe. think just people have to come and check it out, you know, and experience it themselves. Okay. Fantastic. And now, you know, we're switching gears here to talk a little bit about also, you know, vision and your vision in particular. So what is your long -term vision for large entertainment, Curtin? You know, how do you see it shaping the future?

Curt (15:38.987)

Yes, I have. Absolutely.

Sebastian Stahl (15:57.431)

of the family entertainment industry.

Curt (16:00.984)

What I think I look at it as little bit like and thanks for the question, Sebastian, is that, our goal, my partner, Ricardo out of Miami, is that our goal was open 270 of these larks or likes like one of the goals that we've been working on is the fact that we want to be a bit like Velcro. We've started out with those four concepts, miniature golf, shuffleboard, obstacle course.

Sebastian Stahl (16:15.462)

Hmm.

Sebastian Stahl (16:23.398)

Hmm.

Curt (16:27.703)

know, job, all these different things that we can put in there depending on the, but that's not all we wanted to work. Continuing to look at other things that we want to put into our facilities. And, and quite frankly, we want to look at purchasing other, we want it to become an entertainment conglomerate. We want to do many different things and, how do we get to 270? We've also got a concept called the beach that we franchise, which is an inflatable guys. So again, depending what you're looking for,

Sebastian Stahl (16:38.447)

Mm -hmm.

Sebastian Stahl (16:45.201)

Mm.

Sebastian Stahl (16:52.625)

Yeah.

Curt (16:56.161)

We're kind of a one -stop shop franchising wing and the more names and things that we've got, people come to us and they say, look, I don't have any interest in entertainment. want food. As a matter of fact, and I won't get into that, but we literally can, they want to all kids, we can do all kids. We don't have to have any adult stuff. And if they only want adult stuff. our vision in a word or in a couple of words is the fact that

Sebastian Stahl (17:07.804)

Hmm.

Sebastian Stahl (17:14.674)

Right. Right.

Curt (17:23.434)

we would like to become a entertainment, active entertainment conglomerate and then roll it up as years go on.

Sebastian Stahl (17:28.069)

Hmm.

Right, right. That's great. And correct. This is something, you know, all of us that are in business, you know, leadership is it's such an important part of everything that we do. Right. So as a leader, correct, how do you foster a culture of, you know, of innovation and creativity with your team? How do you, you know, whatever your values are or what you're trying to build as a culture, how do you make sure or how do you go about that? That actually trickles down.

with everybody that works in the company, because that's a challenge as you're scaling.

Curt (18:01.493)

It is. And one of the things I really do believe, it ends up being, and this is kind of a core Kurt thing, is that it really starts out in the energy that we create, that I create, it's really that energy. And we all have bad days. And I happen to be a personality that I'm usually on. And if I'm ever off, people come to me and say, are you sick?

Sebastian Stahl (18:10.428)

Hmm.

Sebastian Stahl (18:16.55)

Mm. Mm.

Sebastian Stahl (18:21.852)

Hmm.

Curt (18:30.855)

Is there a problem? So and so forth. I call it in some of the things that I've written the Pied Piper deal. I want to be able to I want to be able to to to speak and have people want to join everybody that I meet. I want to be able to them leaving saying that I want to be a part of that organization. I want to be a part of I want to be a part of Lark's. the guy there's a guy, if you don't mind me quoting some, there's a guy named Jim Valvano, which is in North Carolina.

Sebastian Stahl (18:38.555)

Hmm.

Sebastian Stahl (18:50.982)

Mm.

Right.

Curt (19:00.002)

state coach years ago. And, and, and I really got a lot out of, out of him over the years as a young executive at Rider. I was able to watch or listen to him. And, and it was so motivating about every minute of every day is a sales call. Every person from the mechanic to the person that you talked to, when I, when I was, at Rider for all those years, I ran different facilities and every day I'd walk in and I'd say hello to the mechanic and to the janitor and all the

Sebastian Stahl (19:01.785)

mm -hmm

Sebastian Stahl (19:16.517)

Good night.

Sebastian Stahl (19:28.983)

Okay.

Curt (19:29.543)

things and I want to know about their families and as corny as that sounds, I generally talk to every employee every day and if I don't talk to you that generally means that I'm going cold on you and I'm going to fire you. I'm kidding but I'm really into people and where their attitudes are because you don't get a chance to take a day off. You have to be on

Sebastian Stahl (19:34.012)

Mm.

Sebastian Stahl (19:38.307)

Mm.

Sebastian Stahl (19:52.807)

Hmm.

Sebastian Stahl (19:56.858)

Right, right. No, a hundred percent. that's, mean, at the end of the day, we're in the hospitality business, right? And it's all about people. So I think you, you've nailed it.

Curt (20:04.37)

You know, Sebastian, you have so much experience in the food industry, which we're learning a lot from as well, is that when we would even be at a pizza, you know, we would sell pizza and hot dogs at the, didn't have kitchens. We just had hot food delivered to us. And my partner and I would literally, for the first three or four years, we would be there every day and we would walk around to the clients like white

Sebastian Stahl (20:22.609)

Right.

Curt (20:33.938)

cloth restaurant like white linen restaurants. We would talk to everybody and and and actually the people that I would lean into the people that look crabby the people satisfied you can always go get a compliment from somebody that's screaming and yelling and all excited but but but the people that are crabby are the people you need to talk to because they're the ones you need to turn to make sure you know what are we not doing to make you and they'll either let you know or yell at you and bring that on. So I a little bit the different different view.

Sebastian Stahl (20:38.972)

Hmm.

Sebastian Stahl (20:43.888)

Mmm. Mmm.

Sebastian Stahl (20:50.79)

Yeah.

Sebastian Stahl (21:00.678)

Right, right.

Yo, definitely, And Kurt, of course, with everything that you got going on and you had going on before, you know, also as in your career, how have you balanced, you know, the demands of running and growing a business and with maintaining a personal life or a healthy personal life, I would say. Do you think there's an actual balance? Does that even exist?

Curt (21:05.164)

Thank

Curt (21:24.848)

No, I don't. Every book you read, there is. here's my definition of it, is that not to be corny, but the person that you pick as a partner, like I've been married 38 years, and without a doubt, without a doubt, the reason I had the ability to work 120 hours a week is because of the support that you have at home.

Sebastian Stahl (21:52.882)

Hmm.

Curt (21:53.616)

I don't have somebody nagging it. Where are you? I gotta get here. She understood and was big partner of altitude and a bit. met my wife at Ryder and all these kind of things and that partnership has allowed me to have the time and then then then it's easy because then it's incumbent upon me. I never missed the ball game. I knew I'd fly in. I'd fly out that 8 o 'clock in the morning or 6 o 'clock in the morning. I never I coached all my kids sports.

Sebastian Stahl (22:18.716)

Mm -hmm.

Curt (22:19.747)

The overwhelmed thing, I can't have enough to do. I literally, I was kidding earlier, but I get bored very quickly. And I think treating people properly around you, they automatically wanna help you lift. And I think that's not only my wife, but the rest of my family. And I'm probably really bad at the balance. But I tell you, every Saturday night, no matter what I've done, my wife and I try to go to a movie.

Sebastian Stahl (22:24.528)

Mm.

Sebastian Stahl (22:34.364)

Mmm.

Sebastian Stahl (22:38.577)

Right.

Curt (22:48.782)

and that's gone on for 35 years. So we really enjoy and laugh and kid around and I look forward to going home every night.

Sebastian Stahl (22:53.53)

Right, right.

Sebastian Stahl (22:57.361)

Thank you.

Right, right. No, that's, that's good advice. That's good. So, you know, I know you've had a, again, it's just very impressive career, Curtin, you know, but what would you say that has been the most fulfilling moment so far in your, in all your career?

Curt (23:17.774)

I would tell you there's really been three things. Number one, growing up in Chicago and starting at Rider in 1982, I was literally the lowest of the low pond scum employee at Rider. I started out as a rental counter guy that if you went to Avis to rent a car, I was that guy at rental at Rider. And I went all the way up to become an officer of the company.

Sebastian Stahl (23:26.673)

Hmm.

Sebastian Stahl (23:40.679)

Yeah.

Curt (23:47.021)

and ran US and Europe and did some different things. that's, everybody has that drive in them. And I'm very proud that only five or 10 of us out of a 40, 50 ,000 person company has achieved that over time. To literally come from flipping burgers to do where you do. And to be honest with you, it shows that anybody can do that. It's really just about the passion. Second thing is the fact that a real,

Sebastian Stahl (24:02.161)

Mm.

Sebastian Stahl (24:10.641)

Hmm.

Curt (24:16.044)

instrumental thing was years as I was traveling around, I ended up going back to Chicago and I had a boss and he was the first I thought I would, you when we're young, we think we're great at everything. And I tell everybody, when I was 25, I was great at everything at 64. I'm good at maybe three things. And we tend to get a little bit more humbled. But at 25, I was 36 or something back in Chicago and

Sebastian Stahl (24:35.218)

yeah.

Curt (24:43.785)

this boss of mine, we broke all the rules and records and all this stuff. And this guy came to me, I went to my appraisal and the guy goes, hey, I'm waiting for him to literally like have horns go off and what a great guy I am and all. And he comes in and he goes, hey, you did a great job, congratulations. That was the only accolades I got. He goes, but you're horrible at communicating and you're like, wait a minute, you're supposed to think I'm great and I'm supposed to have

Sebastian Stahl (25:11.398)

Hmm.

Curt (25:12.447)

People walk in with flowers and it was the best. It was the best advice. The stuff that he did for me, one kind of punched me in the nose, allowed me to really advance my career. And then lastly, Sebastian, is the, when we opened Altitude, we ended up getting the entrepreneur or the entrepreneur of the year award for Dallas Fort Worth.

Sebastian Stahl (25:17.18)

Hmm.

Mmm.

Sebastian Stahl (25:25.86)

Hmm desk

Sebastian Stahl (25:40.604)

Hmm.

Curt (25:41.183)

had to go through this whole process. again, never did I think I'd be an entrepreneur to then to be voted the, I think it was called the most up and coming new business in all. There was thousands of people that were entered into it. And my partner and I ended up going through all these panels and all these things and this flag and all these different things are still hanging at one of our facilities. That was a good thing. That was a good,

Sebastian Stahl (26:03.615)

Yeah

That's fantastic. It really is, Kurt. It really is. And you when you're talking about that humbling experience, right, when your boss was telling you how it is, I mean, that's, it's helpful at the end of the day, right? I've went through an experience myself also being, you know, starting out, but it was running a restaurant. I thought I was doing great. And then, you know, at that time, it was my partner also in a way a boss, like he just, you know, put me in front of all the servers and it's like, how is this guy doing his job? And everybody pitched in and like, just, you know.

telling me how it is. And I was like, my God, this is the worst thing. My ego was reduced very fast. But I'll tell you now is the best thing that's happened to me because it allowed me to see the truth. And if I'm not able to see the truth, then I can't make progress and I can't change.

Curt (26:38.301)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Curt (26:54.153)

I agree a hundred percent. some of it's mature. I think I was immature for a lot of years. again, went back, undergrad, I went back to grad school at 32 and I was a horrible student. I mean, I am the epitome of a C student, D student my whole life. When I went to grad school, I ended up only getting one B. I was finally mature enough to go to school, I was in my 30s.

Sebastian Stahl (27:08.134)

Yeah, yeah.

Curt (27:23.984)

So, you know, you learn a lot as you get up.

Sebastian Stahl (27:26.098)

Yeah, 100%, 100%. You just could become more humble and more grounded. That's just how I see it. Kurt, I know entrepreneurship of course comes with a fair share of ups and downs and you know, can you share a personal challenge you you face and how did you overcome it? you know, what would you say one of these biggest, you know, things that you faced in your career?

Curt (27:31.1)

Yeah, absolutely.

Curt (27:54.715)

would tell you that two short stories is that probably again, writer being a big significant part of it. I remember being very young and I remember looking like I was young. I don't have that problem anymore. But when I was, I managed a lot of people that were older than I was. And I was in California and again, we were doing well and doing all these things.

Sebastian Stahl (28:10.064)

Yeah.

Sebastian Stahl (28:14.395)

Hmm.

Curt (28:21.094)

And there was a guy that came that was seven levels above me out of Miami and he came out to California and this guy came out and I was 29 and I'm handling unions and negotiations and all this stuff that I had no idea. I had no idea what. But you make it work and you learn, right? And so this guy comes out, he looks to me in my face and he says, hey,

Sebastian Stahl (28:35.956)

Mm.

-huh.

Curt (28:47.142)

Great job. The place looks great. It was brand new facilities 15 -acre just four or five facilities he goes back to he goes back to corporate and and and I'm as I said, I was pretty hyper back in the day and he goes back and he tells these guys Hey, look, there's no way that this kid is not on drugs and And again, I think a lot of diet Mountain Dew, which is about my only big that's caffeine

Sebastian Stahl (29:07.899)

Hahaha

Curt (29:14.566)

And so he goes through and the challenging part is coming up and we have random drug tests. So all of a sudden on a random mic, they come in and they drug test me. And obviously there was no issue and so and so forth. Since it came back empty, they did it again the next week and so and so forth. So here comes the challenge. So over time, my career took off and all of sudden over the next 15 years, now this guy,

This guy is now working for a guy that works for me. Now he's three levels below I am. And this guy comes up on a chart. We're having layoffs. And this guy comes up and his name comes up and I said, that guy. we're making it. And you don't think those things happen, but those things do happen. And here's the challenging part.

Sebastian Stahl (29:57.394)

Hmm.

Sebastian Stahl (30:08.709)

Mmm.

Curt (30:11.336)

I reach out to the guy and I said, hey, I said, don't know if you remember me or not, because it was either going to get him on the chopping block or he wasn't going to be, but I was good of an opportunity to say, hey, because I don't think picking on people is the right thing to do. And I just said, hey, do you remember me? I'm Kurt Scalarp and back in California. And and he and this is his answer to me. He says, he says vaguely, Kurt, I know, you know, certainly aware of what you're doing now. And so so forth. I said, do you remember what you had done and?

Sebastian Stahl (30:25.116)

Yeah.

Curt (30:41.287)

and that kind of thing and tried getting me in trouble and he said, you know, Kurt, and he said, said, no, goes, I didn't do any of that. And he denied all these things. So now I'm in this moral, moral deal about, about here's a guy trying to, he knows damn well what he did and so on and so forth. And then leadership kicks in and he said, you know, do the right thing. So I, instead of putting it in lot, we had a discussion about, hey,

Sebastian Stahl (30:44.762)

No.

Sebastian Stahl (31:04.913)

Hmm.

Curt (31:09.167)

We got off the phone and I talked to him and we made a decision to hey This is what you did and he ended up admitting it whatever I didn't terminate it and I didn't do it but instead of just on a line because let me tell you my inclination was to shoot him in the head and And get retribution

Sebastian Stahl (31:16.881)

Yeah.

Sebastian Stahl (31:23.091)

Yeah.

Right.

Curt (31:28.954)

The other challenge, and again, I guess that's more of a morality thing. Regarding another challenge is the fact that as you get into franchising, much more personal is that I never do, have you ever seen the movie about McDonald's and actor and I forget the movie, but when Ray Kroc started going out, he went to all his buddies at the country club and got them to sign out. I never did any of that. I never went to,

Sebastian Stahl (31:33.819)

Hmm.

Sebastian Stahl (31:41.018)

Hmm. Hmm.

Sebastian Stahl (31:46.948)

Yeah, right.

Curt (31:58.197)

because friends make it mucky and messy. So I happen to play lot of racquetball and once I, all these guys that play racquetball would make fun, said, Kurt, you got these bounce houses in here, you all these different things. And well, all of sudden they're seeing them pop up everywhere and they start, they start, they start to say, hey, I want to get involved and how do I do this thing? So long and short of it is lesson learned was, that three of my

Sebastian Stahl (32:01.521)

Yeah.

Sebastian Stahl (32:16.266)

Hmm.

Curt (32:28.481)

tier three friends ended up opening these stores and two of the three ended up suing me. Having legality because they made a lot of money, did their thing, but they thought that they had the ability to, I was close enough and they should get more and they should get more attention. Just the reason you don't let friends get into your thing. Lesson learned, challenge of an entrepreneur. I don't know that you can avoid all those, but it's.

Sebastian Stahl (32:35.153)

Hmm.

Sebastian Stahl (32:46.108)

Hmm.

Sebastian Stahl (32:50.477)

Mmm. Mm -hmm.

Sebastian Stahl (32:55.376)

Yeah. Nah. Yeah. I think a hundred percent, I don't think you can avoid a lot of things that happen to entrepreneurship. You can't, you can't. But establishing clear expectations, I think it's something that can help. Not everybody respects those. Right? Like this is going to happen. These are the expectations. This is how do we need to do what we need to do to work together or whatever. But not everybody respects that. So, you know, it happens.

Curt (32:58.398)

My eyes are wide open on.

Curt (33:19.058)

And your last comment on how we overcame that is in both situations, the only way to do that is that today we're able to hide behind texting and emailing and all that stuff. The only way to do everything is face to face. If there's a dispute, I'll fly to wherever I need to be to make sure that we get, we're not gonna do the, I'm first gonna attempt to try to get it done mano in mano, if you will.

Sebastian Stahl (33:34.426)

Hmm.

Sebastian Stahl (33:47.25)

Right, right, 100%. I think that's the way to go. And, Kurt, so tell me, of course you're wearing the CEO hat a lot, and what is a typical day, what does it look like for you, and what keeps you grounded outside of work?

Curt (34:09.727)

Well, that's actually a fun answer is that my day breaks up kind of like this is that, fortunate I have some grandchildren I get to play with. that's, I start out with that every morning and, and, I also don't go to bed till generally about one or two in the morning. And I'll explain that a little bit here, but, but I don't believe the work day. If I need to be somewhere at six, I'll be there at 6 a But I believe my day starts at nine, but I work until midnight.

Sebastian Stahl (34:21.07)

Yeah.

Sebastian Stahl (34:30.277)

Mm.

Curt (34:39.326)

I end up my day comes in and during the day it's all about phone calls, handling issues, talking to employees, how we're gonna get and then generally around six o 'clock I will run home, I'll grab something to eat, I'll come back to the office at 730. I work from 730, what an exciting life, right? And then I'll

Sebastian Stahl (34:49.766)

Hmm.

Sebastian Stahl (35:01.861)

Hmm.

Sebastian Stahl (35:05.586)

you

Curt (35:09.437)

Then I'll go back out at 730 to 10, I'll stay here. And then I really get my organization done. So I will organize the next day, the next week. So that's kind of my quiet time because during the day, too many people shut down their day during working hours. That's sales and opportunity and motivation and all that stuff that leadership's about. I can shut my door and be quiet and do my thing. that's, I think that's not the way to do things.

Sebastian Stahl (35:15.355)

Hmm.

Sebastian Stahl (35:20.719)

Hmm.

Sebastian Stahl (35:25.265)

Yeah.

Sebastian Stahl (35:31.867)

Hmm.

Sebastian Stahl (35:37.839)

Hmm.

Curt (35:38.62)

available and I'm literally, other than going to a movie on Saturday night, I'm literally available. Franchise these, I pick up. As horrible as that is, I pick up.

Sebastian Stahl (35:44.582)

Hmm.

Sebastian Stahl (35:48.594)

Well, that's interesting, but that's interesting. I think it's what you said is finding the quiet time because we get so busy in the day to day that we can't find that quiet time to step back and see what's going on, you know, get organized, have, you know, come up with these ideas, all of these things that really help move the business forward. Right. And sometimes, yeah, I it takes what it takes, right. It just depends on on personalities, of course, in the business itself.

Curt (36:14.428)

It is and generally as the day winds down and make sure that who I hadn't talked to and I try to reach out to them. But more importantly is how I ground myself is that at 1030 I end up going to the gym at 1030 until midnight. I'm at the gym every single night. Every single night and never miss if I'm going to miss I do twice. So I'm very OCD about that stuff and.

Sebastian Stahl (36:22.202)

Mm.

Sebastian Stahl (36:32.624)

Yeah.

Sebastian Stahl (36:40.366)

Mm. Mm.

Curt (36:41.781)

And I will on the weekends, the best weekend, I'll be in the office generally during the weekend, unless I'm on site. But my weekend would be I get up, we have breakfast as a group, I will work out, I'll go play racquetball. I will try to golf. So if I can work out golf and play racquetball or bet that that is the trefect today for me on on a a weekend and.

Sebastian Stahl (36:49.394)

Mm.

Sebastian Stahl (37:04.786)

No, what I see in you, Kurt, and I think it's also in and it happens to a lot of us in entrepreneurship and running businesses, we just find business so much fun. So it's not like, I'm working. It's like, no, I'm having fun. mean, there's some tough times, yeah, something happens, but for the most part, it's just fun, right? And you're in the fun and entertainment business.

Curt (37:18.094)

It's true.

Curt (37:31.098)

I agree with you. My office, like I'm sure yours is, my office is like a home office. It's very, very comfortable and it's literally like being in a living room. So when I'm here, I don't feel like I'm in an office. I'm a little bit, my daughter and some of the people work with, said, my next business will, they're kidding, my next business will be lamps and plants. If you see my office, have of and 14 plants. I got all this stuff around me to,

Sebastian Stahl (37:41.743)

Hmm.

Sebastian Stahl (37:56.325)

Hahaha!

Curt (38:00.959)

I guess it's Feng Shui, some people would say, right? Yeah.

Sebastian Stahl (38:01.394)

Right, right, right, right. No, definitely. And so, Kurt, during your journey, course, as a business owner, what's a moment, because I know you've shared already some challenging times, but is there a moment that's, you know, specific or something that you can think of a situation that really tested your resilience and how did you get through it? And, you know, how did you come to the other side?

Curt (38:24.76)

Yeah, think I think it would probably come back to and I'm specific to the last 15 years, the altitude and the lark. I think it really is when we were creating larks, the the in talking to our lawyers, we continue to get once you sold people and suing you to try to get.

Sebastian Stahl (38:34.213)

Hmm.

Curt (38:51.18)

They think that you've got all this money, your private equity bought you and all that thing. And I can remember calling my lawyer and say, hey, look, I'm not going to do this again. I just got served with another lawsuit. And by the way, the frustrating part is if in fact, like we all do, everybody makes mistakes. If we've done something that's incorrect or told somebody or guided somebody, then we need to own it and do what we need to do.

The challenges of lawsuits where people come to you, it's so greed based that it gets frustrating to say the same story over and over again. And I won't bore you with the specific examples, but in trampoline parks, people would get hurt or whatever. And God forbid, if we were very lucky, we had low incident rates, all these kinds of things. again, the frustrating part for me is the legal system.

Sebastian Stahl (39:24.091)

Hmm.

Curt (39:46.927)

is things we have nothing to do with that keep us on board, that keep us away from growing, that keep us in a legal world. And that to me, and the answer is how I got past it is, is that I lean in and try to handle them quickly. You kind of get into a cadence, and generally I'll have a hour of where I want to scream into a pillow.

Sebastian Stahl (39:53.98)

Right.

Sebastian Stahl (39:57.457)

Hmm.

Curt (40:13.566)

And then I come out smiling again because there's nothing that we can do to make that happen. And the realization is quite frankly this, if the old saying, if you want to run to big dogs, if you don't want to run to big dogs, stay tied to the porch. If you want to be business, recognize that this is part of the package is that there are going to be people trying to sue you. And I slipped on water. So if you don't want to play,

Sebastian Stahl (40:16.58)

Hmm.

Sebastian Stahl (40:30.954)

Hmm.

Sebastian Stahl (40:35.783)

Right.

Sebastian Stahl (40:39.365)

Hmm.

Curt (40:42.058)

then don't get into the business and don't, you know, there's no crying and baseball thing.

Sebastian Stahl (40:46.094)

Right. A hundred percent. You just got to be willing to accept whatever comes because that's just the way it is.

Curt (40:51.35)

Yeah, I mean the whole feeling sorry for yourself thing doesn't work anymore and I way too many people leaning into that and and literally I say that when somebody complains to me about their job. I'm like well change it somebody talks about they don't like their spouse change it, know, you know, complain about it fix it. Yeah, I believe in that.

Sebastian Stahl (40:56.199)

Yeah.

Sebastian Stahl (41:03.074)

Hmm. Hmm.

Sebastian Stahl (41:09.65)

Right, there's something about it. Yeah, for sure. And Kurt, you emphasize, you know, in this business, you know, low debt and high profit margins, but in a world where business can often, you know, rely heavily on borrowing, how do you maintain this discipline and what advice would you give, you know, entrepreneurs about managing finances?

Curt (41:32.372)

That's actually a great, great question because to be honest with you, every, everything that we do relates more to growth, volume and balance sheet. If there were things that I would tell somebody and then there's probably those buckets, Sebastian, there's 190 things under the growth bucket. There's 190 things under the volume book and there's a hundred things under the balance sheet. I think the word that you used there is best.

Sebastian Stahl (41:42.893)

Mm. Mm.

Sebastian Stahl (41:53.852)

Hmm.

Curt (42:00.66)

is that it's too easy today to go borrow money to create a new thing and then put your business in jeopardy. In your business, which I know limited about the restaurant and all the things that you've done, is that, hey, you know what? The old stove isn't working and the oven and all these things and let's go buy more pizza. Let's go add 50 ,000 more to the kitchen. Well, that's great. And I'll just go to the bank. I'll use a line of credit. I'll do any of these things.

Sebastian Stahl (42:00.891)

Hmm.

Sebastian Stahl (42:08.39)

Hmm.

Curt (42:30.932)

The challenge is if you're not paying cash and you're buying it for 50 grand you're paying 70 grand for the same product So why don't we wait? Let's fix it until we can pay cash. So I'm not paying over time or paying down my line and whatever which Fast forward if in fact you sell your business private equity Whether it's an institutional purchase or any of the above is that when they look at it? The first thing they look at is AR debt, know, you know, what's the line of credit? Where are you? Whatever

Sebastian Stahl (42:36.935)

Mm -hmm.

Curt (42:58.482)

If you have a strong and healthy AP, accounts payable, AR, and a healthy cash -full balance sheet, it's okay to have debt. Just have your percent, your debt -to -equity ratios make sense. The problem is, it's just today, as you probably read in the newspaper, is that it's just so easy to get cash that people get themselves in trouble. I read an article about

Sebastian Stahl (42:58.62)

Hmm.

Sebastian Stahl (43:07.76)

Yeah.

Sebastian Stahl (43:14.201)

Hmm.

Curt (43:28.178)

something went from 50 trillion to billion to X trillion dollars in credit card debt in the United States, which, you know, that wasn't like that back in the day. And I don't, I just don't subscribe to that. Now, sometimes credit cards and lines of credit are made for disasters and they should be zero balance. I'm kidding. They should be as low as you can for a ceiling falls in because as good as we are,

Sebastian Stahl (43:37.82)

No.

Sebastian Stahl (43:46.044)

Yeah.

Sebastian Stahl (43:54.247)

Right.

Curt (43:56.28)

and excuse the expression, but the old bumper sticker, know, the shit happens. And as as we are, we can't predict it. A car goes through our whatever the case might be, an insurance deductible. So my deal is that let's look at every option before we go more into debt. And when we do go into debt, just be all in for it to understand that, my plan is to pay that down. Because the minute you start a business, you need to understand when you want to sell the business.

Sebastian Stahl (43:59.555)

Mm. Right.

Right.

Sebastian Stahl (44:08.752)

Right.

Sebastian Stahl (44:16.274)

Hmm.

Curt (44:26.226)

And if you continue to raise debt, if your business would sell for 10 million and you've got 4 million in debt, you're not making 10 million, you're making 6 million net the debt.

Sebastian Stahl (44:31.909)

Mm.

Sebastian Stahl (44:35.57)

Right, No, 100%. That's good advice, Kurt. And you know, Kurt, as someone who's not just building a business but also writing a book, I know you're doing that. So what's one idea or belief that you hold strongly but others in your industry might disagree with?

Curt (44:54.095)

The one idea, and again, I know that I talk a lot, but the one deal is volume. And I used it earlier in the discussion, is that I would much rather charge $19 .99 and get 3 ,000 customers in than I would be to charge $50 .99 and get 100 customers in. And I use this example, Sebastian, is that

Sebastian Stahl (45:03.1)

Hmm.

Curt (45:22.863)

20 % everyone loves shopping at Nordstrom's. Great place, great service, all the above except things are five, 10, 20 times higher than, but you get a, bought it Nordstrom's like buying Starbucks coffee. Coffee doesn't cost $9 a cup, but I don't drink. But Nordstrom, and there's a certain person, and if you can afford it, great, have at it. There's also a lot of people that shop at Dillard's, which is kind of a second tier type of show, and that's great.

Sebastian Stahl (45:35.43)

Right.

Hahaha

Sebastian Stahl (45:49.712)

Right.

Curt (45:51.503)

Every single person goes into a Walmart. our thing is we want to be quality. We want to feel great. We want to price it like Walmart. So every person, you ever leave a restaurant or you ever leave an entertainment place and you had a great time with your family, you get home and your expectation was that you spend $150 on the family that night. You get home and it's $350 and you're pissed. And you're like, I feel like they fooled me.

Sebastian Stahl (46:16.934)

Yep.

Curt (46:21.518)

And we're the guys that don't want to fool. We want a lot of volume in our pricing schedule. So a of come in and not only will they come in once a month, but they'll come in two or three.

Sebastian Stahl (46:21.531)

Hmm.

Sebastian Stahl (46:28.406)

Hmm.

Sebastian Stahl (46:32.89)

Right. No, that's a hundred percent right. I think it's especially, you know, in entertainment is a restaurant business and you're seeing it more now because of the situation that's happening, you know, with inflation and everything that's going on, labor costs so high that there's two things that are happening. You know what mean? It's like if you really need to deliver a good value proposition in your business because it's either you can't continue to raise prices. People are not going to pay for it. Right. And

So you have, what's happening is that people are restaurants are streaming their services, right? Or their menus. So they offer a limited, you know, menu for a good price, or you're going to have these, they're like the Nordstroms that are offering this experience, right? And people will still go to that, you know, so being so clear about the value proposition that you offer, you know, that it needs to match what people are expecting and what you're providing. those two things match in my experience, that's what makes a business successful.

Curt (47:13.793)

That's right.

Sebastian Stahl (47:30.266)

So I think that's your right on, know, and what you guys are doing.

Curt (47:34.987)

Well, and to add on to that too, is the fact that let's say we're making, we're fortunate enough to make 30 % operating profit or whatever the case might be. You know, it's okay for the business to keep your rates and if our costs go up because we're not a public company, it's okay to now go to 28 because we feel the prices should stay the same. That's weird, but sometimes it's okay to do if you're reading the tea leaves.

Sebastian Stahl (47:57.36)

Right, right.

Sebastian Stahl (48:04.114)

Right, 100%. And lastly, Kurt, this is a final question. I like to end with this. What's the one question you wish people would ask you more often, but they never do? And how would you answer it?

Curt (48:06.92)

Thank

Curt (48:19.434)

Yeah, think that the question that many people ask me, I'm going to answer it both ways, they ask me is, where do you get all of your energy? And I laugh and I say, diet mountain. And the real question is, rarely do people ask me about the leadership portion of what I do.

Sebastian Stahl (48:47.718)

Mm.

Curt (48:48.714)

I think that I do a lot of seminars and speaking engagements and different things and I talk a lot about it. But I think that what we do has to come naturally. And me being around a big crowd, I like to be, there can't be more people around me. Like if there's 10, I want 100. If there's 100, I want 1 ,000. And I want all of them to ask very,

Sebastian Stahl (49:17.08)

Mmm.

Curt (49:17.897)

hard questions, know, quantum physics stuff, which by the way, wouldn't have an answer. But because what I enjoy is not having an answer for something they might ask me because it drives me calling them back again. And I love to be put in a position where I'm getting deluged by odd questions. even more, I love when, because I believe when you're speaking,

Sebastian Stahl (49:23.858)

Hahaha

Sebastian Stahl (49:30.757)

Hmm.

Mm.

Curt (49:46.416)

I believe that you're an entertainer, not a speaker. And if you're talking about business, can get dry. And I want the heckler answer. I want those guys to, to those guys, women, whomever it might be, I want them asking questions because that, that it really makes you think it's like they come with this, your thing. And then it's not just, Hey, you know, why did you become successful? It's not that boring stuff. It's really wild.

Sebastian Stahl (49:49.307)

Hmm.

Sebastian Stahl (50:02.62)

Yeah.

Sebastian Stahl (50:06.05)

Hmm.

Hmm. Hmm.

Curt (50:15.014)

that I can either say I have no idea or it really gets the juices flowing. So I like challenges, like obscurity and I don't know that all answers your question, Sebastian, but.

Sebastian Stahl (50:20.198)

Hmm.

Sebastian Stahl (50:27.258)

It does. I mean, you can give me an example. What's one of the toughest questions that somebody's asked you?

Curt (50:34.056)

What's one of the toughest questions? That's a tough question. That was right there.

Sebastian Stahl (50:38.066)

I'm sure you get a lot of them if you have all these speaking engagements, for sure.

Curt (50:47.314)

Yeah, yeah, I think that it's funny because when you asked that, I think it would be an answer question. And because of your earlier questions, I enjoy financial questions. I think probably with me, the thing that I lack the most on, it's probably the thing that you're the best at is that marketing. I know that's an odd answer, but I in marketing.

Sebastian Stahl (51:08.795)

Nah.

Yeah, yeah.

Curt (51:16.839)

to my core, 100%. But my mind doesn't think marketing. Somebody asked me in a big group, literally like, Sebastian, can you help me out? I'll talk about it all day long, but I don't know a real, I feel like that's an inadequacy in my part, is that give me tons of it, because there's a of people that are like, you'll market yourself, eh, it'll just be word of mouth. I don't believe in that. I think that, you gotta know what you don't know.

Sebastian Stahl (51:17.819)

Hmm.

Sebastian Stahl (51:22.204)

Mm -hmm.

Sebastian Stahl (51:29.351)

Good.

Sebastian Stahl (51:35.205)

Hmm.

Sebastian Stahl (51:38.662)

Right.

Sebastian Stahl (51:42.663)

Right.

Sebastian Stahl (51:46.65)

Yeah, well I think that's why you're good leader because you know to recognize that what we don't know we just find somebody else that's good at it, right?

Curt (51:47.854)

it.

Curt (51:56.222)

That's right. And I'll tell you, I know what I like though. When I see it, generally somebody will come across and I'm like, I love that. I don't need to get into the detail, but I'll know that I really, like

Sebastian Stahl (52:05.83)

Right, you're on the right path. That's great, that's great Kurt. Well Kurt, thank you so much again for your time. It was a great conversation and great to learn more about you and is there something, just to close, for people that don't know Largs Entertainment, what are the future openings, what's happening, where can people find you? And if they're interested in franchising of course, how do they get in touch with you?

Curt (52:31.81)

Absolutely, so go to larksentertainment .com to be able to find all of our franchising in the cities. it's Larks, Kansas City, Larks Entertainment City, Cleveland, it's actually Forest City Shuffleboard. And then of course our Fairview facility here in Dallas. But if anybody would love to, we look at all of our...

We're on LinkedIn, we're on Facebook, we're on all these different things if people have questions or answers and literally we've got people looking at it all the time. So anytime, anyplace, feel free to reach out to us. And again, if you happen to find my phone number, call me too, because I'll pick up the call.

Sebastian Stahl (53:11.922)

I won't make it public but I'll hold you to that. Thanks Kurt. Well thank you so much again. Thank you. Thank you so much Kurt and just Kurt one

Curt (53:18.211)

Hey, hey, thanks so much for your time. Talk soon.