Building Iconic Restaurant Brands with Arjun Sen

What makes a restaurant truly unforgettable? In this episode of Restaurant Leaders Unplugged, Arjun Sen—former VP of Marketing at Papa John’s and branding expert—reveals the secret to making your restaurant a one-of-one brand. From his journey through iconic brands like Pizza Hut, Boston Market, and Einstein Bros. Bagels to founding Zen Mango, Arjun shares invaluable insights on customer experience, leadership, and marketing strategies that create lasting success.

Discover how to craft a brand that stands out, engage customers on an emotional level, and build a culture that drives loyalty. Plus, Arjun shares personal lessons from his book Unquit Forever and how challenges have shaped his approach to business and life.

🎧 Don't miss this game-changing conversation!

Connect with our guest:
📌 His website: https://unquit.com/

📌 Social media:https://www.linkedin.com/in/zenmangoarjunsen/

https://www.instagram.com/arjunsen.brandzen/?hl=en

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Transcript

(0:00 - 1:01)

One of one is very important. If you are one of many, you get ignored. If you're one of few, you're noticed and still ignored.

One of one is that one place, restaurant, that in your mind stays forever. It's fear for missing out. Welcome to the Restaurant Leaders Unplugged podcast, where real talks with restaurant leaders take center stage.

Discover the challenges and victories that define success in the culinary world. Dive into essential strategies for marketing to and gain insights that will transform your approach to your restaurant business. Don't just keep up, lead the way.

Join me, your host, Sebastian Stahl, on this journey to excellence. Arjun, welcome to the podcast. Welcome to Restaurant Leaders Unplugged.

I want to start, of course, at the beginning. There's just so much I want to ask you, Arjun. It's really such a pleasure to have you here, but can you start and give us a glimpse into your journey? How did you become known as Brandzen and what really drew you into the marketing world at the beginning? Life is all about a person who sees something in you that you don't see.

(1:01 - 3:56)

Me, with my undergrad in engineering, was all focused, even in my MBA, to get into operations, because to me, two and two is always four. And a professor from Finland, Heikki Rinne, I'm eternally forever grateful to him. He kept telling me from day one that, Arjun, you need to be in marketing.

I wouldn't believe it. And it took Heikki and Professor Rinne close to one semester for me to finally realize this is what I want to do. And, of course, then my first job was at Pizza Hut, and somehow I got into restaurant marketing, and that's where the first half of my career was.

So just tell me a little bit about your background again, Arjun, for the people that might not know you, where you're in marketing, you get into the restaurant world. Can you share a little bit of your background on how that transitioned? So restaurant, it was one after another. Pizza Hut then went into Boston Market, was one of the founding members of Einstein Brothers Bagels.

And then it was again, another fascinating, amazing leader, Blaine Hurst, who was then the president of Papa John's, invited me over to get to Papa John's. And very soon, I was the VP of Marketing and Operations Services. And it just gave me this amazing look, because many a time, marketing is designing a plate.

But once I started looking at both areas, I realized it's not what we design, how the plate is implemented. And I still won't forget one of my first visits to a restaurant in St. Louis, when the manager told me, Arjun, you guys are brilliant. Next, every time you send me a new idea, can you tell me what not to do before I do that? I'm like, wow.

Like, it was humbling. It was just humbling, Sebastian, one after another to realize that sitting in my corporate office, life was very different from Friday night at a restaurant. I need to play for my team, not work in thin air.

And then I quit after 9-11 to be a dad and started restaurant marketing group that eventually became Zen Mango. And seeing from outside gave me a totally different perspective. Like right now, everything in branding to be based on five words.

Any industry where I go today, the first thing I feel we need to be that person. That humility is very important. Then think like that person, feel like that person, and then act, then talk.

Simple example I'll give is I was presenting to an elderly care retirement home. I wanted to be there for a day. I just have not been there.

And just being there, I realized just the bed itself is different. Walking into a life with one or two five by seven pictures is not easy. Like if today I request you to choose only one picture that you will leave this room with, there'll be a fight, there'll be a war in your life, people who were not included.

And just that mindset itself really helped me. And that's the part where for me, everything in branding is about be the person, think, feel, act, and then talk. Should not talk till we can feel the brand because otherwise it becomes BS.

(3:58 - 4:09)

That's right. That's right. So Arjun, I mean, I get exactly what you're saying, right? And I think when either they're a little bit bigger brands, they have a concept of what you're talking about.

(4:10 - 4:48)

What would you say to smaller restaurant operators that they still see this kind of strange, the branding element and how that is plays such a crucial role in the success of a business because they're operators, right? Or they might be chefs or whatever. They open just a beautiful restaurant and great food, but they don't see the value of the brand or branding and they don't invest in it. Yeah.

I would just ask them, number one, to be very humble and ask a very simple question. Let's say this new restaurant has been opened called Sebastian Arjun's Burger Place. The first thing we need to tell ourselves is the world does not need another burger place.

(4:49 - 5:20)

One doesn't, let's be truthful. So what is it about Sebastian Arjun's Burger Place that makes everybody say, wow, guys, why did you wait to like that uniqueness? If you don't have, let's not even get into that business because the odds of us winning is very, very, very low. Second, it's not the product, it's the experience, which means you really have to feel every time Sebastian Arjun leaves that restaurant, what do they feel? It's the feeling that carries.

(5:20 - 5:41)

And finally, before you spend any marketing, you must realize your best marketing is every customer who comes there because this is the reality, just like in a date. Sebastian, if you were single and you were my best friend and I set you up on a date, the moment you go to the date, the first thing you will put that person in one of three categories. Arjun, I want to kill you, this is not funny.

(5:42 - 6:48)

Or category three is Arjun, you really know me, my best friend or let's see how it goes. During the date, each one of you take input and at the end of the date, each one of you will put the other person. This woman we go out with will put you on one of three buckets.

Even if Sebastian is the last person on this planet, I don't want to go out with him ever. Or it could be, wow, I like this person, this guy is the perfect person for us to go to the museum because he knows so much about art, I would love to walk the museum with him. Or something in between Friday night, extra movie tickets, Sebastian is not a cool guy to call.

Same thing happens in the restaurant. Every customer from day one will sit in your restaurant and decide sitting in front of you to put you in one of three buckets. Never, maybe, absolutely.

And that is something that you control. Before you spend money anywhere else, that is the part where be a customer in your own restaurant over and over again and see the smallest things you can do. Simple things we do is we want to greet everybody when they come in and we want to say thank you when they leave.

(6:48 - 7:08)

There's nothing worse than screaming at a person when they're leaving, thank you. What are you doing? Did I leave something here? We're building that business with the first question was very important, the world does not need another burger place, another restaurant. Till you salt and I'll give you a simple example.

(7:08 - 7:27)

I worked with this one unit restaurant, they were called Icon Burger. I asked them the same question and then when we were sitting in their kitchen and realized that every burger is smashed and when you smash it, the meat, the whole thing becomes flavorful. It's a different level of blended flavor, just thinking about it, my mouth waters.

(7:30 - 10:24)

So the world didn't need another burger place, but nobody was smashing and that's the reason smashed burger on a place in restaurant hall of fame. I think that mindset from day one is very important. Absolutely, Arjun.

And you mentioned that you transitioned from the corporate world and into your consulting company, right? And I haven't read the entire thing, but I was reading some of parts of your book about with your daughter, the experience that you have with your daughter. Raising a father, that's the name of the book. It really resonated with me, Arjun, because you go in there and describe how you were just kind of so focused in the corporate world and you weren't seeing other things in your life, like you're missing out on your daughter's life in some way, right? So can you share a little bit about that, Arjun, how do you transition into doing this and what happened? Because it really resonated with me as a father, I have a five-year-old and another one on the way.

And in the restaurant world, especially, it can be all consuming. I got out of operations, I used to own restaurants as well, but it's just very difficult. Yeah.

And that's the part where Sebastian, the wealth, you and I have the exact same amount and we cannot ever change it, it's 24 hours in a day. How we spend it is 100% in our control. And this now feels like confession time.

I was stealing time from my daughter to put it in my corporate, so I could move faster up, make more money. There's nothing wrong about working hard. It's very important to be passionate.

But there's that boundary that is very important, because to be very truthful, and if you look at my past, every brand I worked with, at some point, brands and people move. But my daughter and myself, we will not, we will be connected forever. That was the big aha for me was, there's a difference between passion and attachment.

Attachment is you to your daughter and the future baby forever. Attachment is even in this call, what phone call if you get now, you have to say, Arjun can be paused. There are a few people in your life and a few people in my life and having that priority is very important.

Once you have that priority, then you can play with full passion and engage professionally. And that I think was balance was missing in my life earlier. And I would say that in a way, I was taking life, family for granted.

And that wake up call when it came, I'm so glad the wake up call came from the cutest person in my life, my eight-year-old daughter. And I'm glad I answered and jumped out of bed that day and changed my life. Are there any regrets? Yes, there are.

I wish I could have stayed in the corporate world longer, bigger roles worldwide, blah, blah, blah. But that's a smaller regret. If today I talked to you and you asked about my family, and I just have one daughter and in my mind, I'm like, wow, haven't heard from her for six months, 12 months, that would be a bigger regret.

(10:24 - 10:53)

So life is about the smaller of two regrets, we have a choice. How do we balance became the big thing. Absolutely.

And Arjun, your story, of course, and I know there's a movie that was made from your story as well. You had a really tough time. I know you were diagnosed with cancer at some point in your life.

And I know it was extremely difficult. How did those challenges reshape your perspective on business, leadership and life? You know, it's not just one challenge. When challenges start layering up, life either breaks you or makes you stronger.

(10:54 - 11:08)

Life also gets you the strongest support that you could never dream of, like your dream team becomes stronger. Two things happen. One, you start pushing your moonshot goals even beyond.

(11:09 - 13:42)

And I think that's the part where it's not about indifference. Many a time, I really feel in the corporate world or in life, we stay at this average like, okay, you and I are working on a project, great idea. Why can't we sleep on it tonight and come back tomorrow and pause a little bit more by saying, Sebastian, what can we do to make it a little better? Because that's where the wow-ness is.

Same thing. Now I'm remarried, Valentine's Day, why do I have to send her just a flower, like everybody else does? Why can't I pause? And that's the part where going a little more has become very important. Because earlier, I was taking life for granted.

Earlier, I was looking at by saying, yeah, if I don't celebrate this Valentine's Day with my wife, I'll get next or the one after. Once I realized that there's no guarantee on future, present is what present is, it's called present because it's a gift. And that's the big aha that has changed is being at the precipice at the edge of losing it all has helped me appreciate like, I'll give you a very goofy example.

After a big surgery of mine, where they had to move the job forward, everything else, technical term, I figured it out is by maximum something, I can't even know. You know, drink water for 18 days. So I was on IVs, everything.

I missed drinking water. Like the first sip of water, I said, I will never take water for granted. Now, anybody gives me bottled water, I would take it right away because I know what it feels like to miss.

And the big question to me is, why did I have to go to that far, both with my daughter, life and everywhere else to appreciate life? And I think that's at the core is appreciating every moment, living every moment to maximize. And that I think makes us better in the professional world, in life and everywhere. Life becomes more fun.

Yeah. So Arjun, those are great insights. I think I've gone through difficult experiences myself.

And like you, I think I've come to appreciate things in a whole different way. It just makes me more humble and appreciative of many things. One challenge that I find is maintaining that consistency in perspective, because one day you can see it and you take the actions to change those things.

And this applies to business, this applies to marketing, this applies to everything. But at some point I can easily fall into the trap of, I forget, I take it for granted and I got this. And then I'm not back in the humble place that leads me to better in everything, being present, appreciative, grateful.

(13:42 - 14:01)

And that helps me become just a better person in everything that I do. So how do you maintain that consistency? How do you remind yourself about this? I think first thing to appreciate that we are human, we are not perfect. Which means to be a juggler, let me be a one ball juggler first.

(14:02 - 19:48)

Let me not start with eight because it'll be a disaster. I'll be a comedian, not a juggler. And there was this article, I forget, it must be John Blackwell or somewhere, I forgot the last name, John or Jack Blackwell.

This beautiful concept, doing something 100% is easier than doing it 90% of the time. So if each one of us decide on a few things, we will do 100%. I'll give you an example.

I was struggling to go to the gym three days a week. One week I would go three, four and next three weeks I'm not there. And then I just said, is Arjun 100%? Yeah, Arjun is 100% on some things.

I brush my teeth twice a day, shower, like I'm telling you, I wear my glasses, like I'm good, I'm 100%. So I made a commitment that Arjun will go to the gym first Monday of every month. The night before, I am unstoppable.

I even get my clothes out, it's a big deal. Everybody in my family knows. And only after I started going every Monday, then I added, sorry, first Monday, every Monday.

So I really think that sometimes we really must set very clear goals. Just a little baby cannot start running. There's a crawl, then a stand, walk, and then run.

And I think that is very important. And the second thing also is at any point doing one thing. And that's one of the things I work with some of the top sports personalities.

What I realized is they realize the art of not multitasking. At any point of time, you can do only one thing. Like only reason this conversation with you I'm thoroughly enjoying is, of course, you prepare everything.

But we are only doing this right now. At this point, as I'm going through, if I'm looking at my phone, I'm like, okay, hey, just hold on. It does not work.

So I just feel staying humble, knowing that we are imperfect, don't beat us, beat up on our own self, be kind. But more important, there is pick few things that's important that I must do and be consistent. Like a simple thing.

When I golf, I don't look at the score. For every part, I will give three reads one behind the ball, one from behind the hole, and from the side. And I give myself a score.

And my goal is when I golf 100% of every part, I will have those three reads. I don't measure two parts, three parts. I don't because that's not in my control.

I measure what's in my control. And I'm committed. There are days I can't my mind is somewhere I'm kind that day.

Okay, Arjun, you're doing good. 70 is good. But tomorrow 100%.

I hope that gives you some flavor. It helps a lot. And I think it's you're going into how we relate to ourselves as well, right? How that's kind of the self talk that we have.

And sometimes we have these negative recordings in our minds, and you struggle so much. And then, of course, this podcast is about leadership, marketing as well, but all of these things. And these are the things that I think we sometimes miss talking about, because we can talk about all external strategies all we want.

But if we don't really master the internals, there's just no way we'll be able to perform and be a good leader. So I want to add one thing you said the negative. I have put a very simple rule.

I only go back to the past to get two things. One, learning to celebration, no criticism, no making the past better. Like, think for a second, you what you did yesterday, you put your best effort.

Can you do better? Yes. So why go and beat up Sebastian beat up Arjun of yesterday? That's useless. You don't get a chance to fix past ever.

And that really helps me is I go to past only with flowers to celebrate and bring back learning. That's it. That's a really great way of putting it.

And Arjun, you mentioned, and you talk about Sherpas and guides for people that may not know. Can you share a little bit of a moment when a Sherpas guidance really change your trajectory in life in your career? We've talked a little bit about the Sherpas who opened the doors like I wouldn't be in marketing without Professor Hakeem Rene. I wouldn't be in restaurant in a senior position till Blaine Hurst sees in me and gives me that opportunity.

I also feel we being human beings, like there are times we give up. And if you watch the movie, I want to talk. There's a moment I was ready in my life.

Do I blame myself? No. Things were very overwhelming. But there was a person in my life who didn't give up.

A nurse called Nancy from New York kept calling me, kept calling me and got through. And she explained this to me. And finally, when I processed, I learned this major concept that has stayed with me forever.

Think, Sebastian, anytime the headwind in life becomes so strong that you cannot move forward, all you have to do is find a little energy to take a U-turn. And the headwind becomes a tailwind. And you soar and become unstoppable.

I'm talking to you today. I'm present because of all the Sherpas. Like there are times we being human beings, we give up.

And that's what I push in the book Unquit Forever is, is the Sherpas in our life. Let's be Sherpas in other people's life, be in their life when they need. It's one word from you today, like this podcast.

Even if there's one operator somewhere who listens and it changes, that's one more. And I think there'll be a lot more. But that's the part where you are being a Sherpa today.

You're not gaining anything out of this. You're helping that person who needs help. And I think that is the spirit in which the life works.

And I think that's okay. I want to add one more thing there is when these small teams take a picture, I want you to take two pictures. One, the camera is in front where all of us are smiling.

I want a second picture when the camera is behind us, with us putting our hands behind each other. That is the strength of the picture. That's the picture will tell me on a tough day, I have Sebastian with me, and I'm unbeatable with Sebastian with me.

(19:48 - 19:52)

That's beautiful and true, Arjun. Thank you for sharing that. It's also been my experience.

(19:52 - 20:57)

I've relied on many people to get through a lot of things. And I've also had times when I just wanted to quit. It was just difficult situations.

And that's it. I find the most joy in, well, the humility to ask for help, and then also in helping other people. And that again is a principle like you're saying in everything, in life, in business, in everything, because it's all about relationships.

And where we feel the most happy and connected is when we are connecting with other people. And so, Arjun, in your book, Unquit Forever, and it's deeply personal, I know, but it's also universal in some way. What is the one principle from the book that you think resonates most with restaurant owners and operators? To me, I think there are three words I use is number one, appreciate.

So you always look at, there are people with you, you're never alone. Second, prepare, prepare, prepare. Like you can, there's no shortcut.

Like for example, you have to have a plan for everything. You have to have a plan Friday evening in a pizza restaurant. If you run out of dough, what do you do? You cannot sit in a crisis and plan a crisis.

(20:57 - 21:03)

Every crisis, everything you have to plan. Word number three, celebrate. Celebrate everything.

(21:03 - 23:09)

Don't celebrate milestones. Don't have to wait. Like right now, you and I are fortunate to get to know each other's celebration.

And that's the part where every smile, every compliment, everything is important because life is a journey. There are two beautiful words you just said, one was rely and joy. Joy is very important.

If you're not having fun, let's not do it. And rely is a very important word and there's a hidden message in rely. Do not lie when you rely.

If you're relyinging on me, make me feel that I am the only person you are counting on and I will play differently, Sebastian. Truly rely on me. On the other side, if I know you don't and you are ready to take this project away from me at the first instant, I'm playing safe.

So those are very powerful words you've shared. That's great, Marjan. Thank you for sharing that.

So also in your grandmother's lessons inspired the concept of customer karma. Can you explain how this philosophy can transform a restaurant's approach to customer experience? Yeah, because to me, in restaurants, the moment you open the door, you're making a promise. The promise is very, very simple is, Sebastian, if you walk in with your family today, you don't have a backup plan.

This is the only place you guys will go for lunch and I will go all out to make it amazing for you. Karma is putting my best effort. Karma is not expectations and transactional, karma is not.

Karma is because I'm honored, blessed, fortunate, whatever the word you want to use, that Sebastian and family has chosen to have their only lunch, only today with me. I will pour all out because that's the promise, because that's the reason we opened the restaurant. Money will come if you wow one person at a time, every time.

And wowing happens with the heart. And I feel this is something I looked at when we were doing some work with Starbucks was they were worried about when the line increases, they were trying to be faster, be more efficient. I'm like, no, that's the time you slow down.

(23:09 - 24:42)

Even if I wait in a line, when my turn comes in front of the barista or the person taking my order, I want that person to pay 100% attention to me and not rush me. Then wait becomes okay. So to me, I think being present for one person every time, simple thing I've learned doing work with Chick-fil-A.

They take that to the point where if you and I having this meeting conversation at our Chick-fil-A, when the manager comes in, the manager will place himself in front of us right there and wait till we are done with the conversation to have eye contact before he or she talks. And this is a brilliant part. The manager will exit right here behind me, not in front of me.

So the manager will never show his butt or her butt to me. These are the small things big brands do that makes them big. Chick-fil-A didn't become big just because.

When they say thank you, they mean it. So that's my big thing on karma is karma is all about the promise of one person at a time and then the next. Arjun, that's a great concept, but how do you make this actionable in terms of how does it trickle down from when you work with a restaurant owner or operators or CEOs, whoever it is that you're working with, how does that trickle down, especially at a small restaurant and at larger restaurants and big restaurant groups with multiple locations? Because when you talk at the top and we discuss these things, they all make sense, but then getting the people's buy-in is sometimes difficult.

(24:42 - 25:32)

And the other thing you're talking about being present and really having that type of mentality and perspective, how do you make it real in other people? Well, first in yourself, because again, you got to be self-aware to even have the capacity to be present in that form. So how do you help train or how do you make that actionable with and trickle down? So number one is before you roll out something, follow that same, be, think, feel, act, and then talk. Before you roll out something on how orders are being taken, go do that.

Because if you don't feel the pain, it does not work. It becomes much more authentic as you go through. Make it easy for people.

Make it real. Don't give tactical things they need to check. Teach people simple things.

(25:32 - 29:59)

Have eye contact and smile with your eyes. That's a beautiful, simple thing to look at instead of every time smile. No, that's not a smile.

That's a forced smile. A smile has to be from the heart. Having an eye contact to the point where if you are stressed, you're not sure by saying, hey, do you need extra few minutes? So that's the part that is there.

Powering people by saying, this is your domain. This area that you are there, nobody else owns it other than you. And people work very differently when you give them a domain to own.

People also need support. In most restaurants, there is no way of a person getting substituted for a few minutes. If you are the manager, if you see Arjun is a little stressed, you can come and say, Arjun, just get a beverage, take a 5-minute, 10-minute break.

You're going through a lot today, man. I will be grateful to you for doing that. Because to me, I think that's the part of the heart that is very important.

But another thing I learned being in the restaurant industry is what we don't do is tomorrow Arjun gets promoted. You have to unlearn first. In the new job, what you don't do is more important than what you do.

If I keep adding the mindset of what it took to be a server, what it took to be a cook, and now I'm an assistant manager, I'm micromanaging. Micromanaging is such a challenge in restaurants, because it makes people feel less empowered. If everybody starts working two to three levels below, life is nasty.

It's difficult. So those are a few things that is there is you have to be like people who build the training have to be there. I'll give you a simple example.

For a restaurant I was working with, I just had the goofy idea and I suggested that when you interview anybody who will be order takers, why don't you do the interview standing on both sides of a table? Standing is different from sitting. Like right now, if this conversation happened when we were standing, we would have done like it's a different energy. So if you are hiring me for a football role, let's do it on a football field.

Let's not do it on Zoom. And those were very simple things as being in those positions, being in those roles are very, very important. And the final thing for restaurants, this is a wisdom I learned from somebody is, if you're a supervisor, don't be a seagull.

Seagulls eat free food, poop all over and leave. So what we do? You're the manager, you came in, told me everything that's wrong, ate all the free food and shattered me, scared the daylights out of me and you left. That's a great math that you said, Arjun.

So here you're making me think of two things, culture and leadership, because to be able to execute that, there needs to be a culture that is ingrained over time so people can adopt these things, these principles that we're talking about. And then leadership is also getting the right people in the right place that have a certain set of soft skills, I would say, that again, can perform what we're talking about here and are the right fit for the job. So how do you help when you're working with restaurants, smaller, bigger groups to really make this culture real? Because it's super easy to talk about principles and things that we're guided by, but to make it real is very different.

And you stole the word. That was the most important word is real. If we build a restaurant concept, we must plan that concept can be delivered Friday evening at peak time.

If Friday evening peak time, the probability of us delivering it, you and I are the two founders is 40%, then a team member who gets slightly more than minimum wage has a chance of making it happen is nearly zero. So concepts get flawed at the very beginning when we don't plan for peak performance. And that's the part where team members want to win.

A restaurant chain I always go back and just sit there is Raising Cane's. They were born simple, stayed simple, and that's the reason they get rewarded. They made sure, let's think, they have not added a single menu item, even though they can.

Still, one chicken finger, one Texas toast, one sauce, one ketchup, like such a simple thing. And that's the part where whatever you want to do, make sure that at peak time, you can enforce. That is very important, a test of reality as you start going through. Because leadership is about where you want to go, but seeing there's a path to win for everyone.

If that minimum hourly person on a Friday night does not see a path to win, there's no path to win. You're lost before you start the game. Right.

So Arjun, you often talk about brands evolving to become one of one. Can you talk about that concept of what that means? And for a small restaurant owner, what is the first step in achieving this destination? So this is where the conversation started for us is, when you start your burger chain, pizza chain to answer that question is, the world does not need, but we have created. One of one is very important.

If you are one of many, you get ignored. If you're one of few, you're noticed and still ignored. One of one is that one place, restaurant that in your mind stays forever.

It's fear for missing out. I'll give a very simple example. A place I always look for smoothies, tropical cafe.

I went there the other day and I realized that they have wraps and they were making a wrap for somebody else. I realized that every wrap is handmade in front of you. And you can choose what goes in, what doesn't.

My wife is vegetarian. She's very caring about what she eats. I dodged a bullet.

I used the word caring. I was going somewhere else. I saw that.

(31:34 - 34:01)

So right away, I had to call her by saying, this is a restaurant which has amazing transparency in food. That's one of one right there. For me to see and call her right there, there was something good they were doing.

And if I was running that, I would bring the transparency in front instead of hiding it on the back. Making those wraps and everything in front is what the brand is. If you're doing it, do the magic in front.

Don't do the magic behind. So I really think that is what one of one is. One of one could be either something on service, something on your product, something there.

What is the thing that you do with so much pride and your competition cannot copy? That literally makes your customers go by saying, wow. And the one of one also works in a different way. Tomorrow, when I go somewhere else and have a wrap, I will look at my wife and say, you know, they don't do it like that.

I will cheat on your restaurant. I'm sorry. That's the way world works.

Location is very important. But when I cheat, I will become a loyal customer of your brand when I cheat. Yeah, 100%.

And you just said location is still very important. It still is. So what we're facing right now as an industry, Arjun, we're facing a lot of challenges from staffing and customer retention and full service restaurants with high labor costs, all these things that are happening.

What do you think is the most pressing issue and how can operators address it? So if you go through, COVID accelerated a lot of the changes that were coming. Off-premise eating at home, all of these became faster, better. As things are evolving and changing, we really must understand what is the core of the brand and what must change.

For example, nearly every restaurant I know serves on-premise food for off-premise. It's totally different. If you and I tomorrow are doing a picnic with our families and we will travel 40 minutes for both sides, the kids and everybody else to eat, we'll plan different food.

We will not take the same food you and I would have had for dinner at our family dining table. And most restaurants don't see that. At Papa John's, that's the genius I saw of our founder those days was he designed our pizzas to be only an off-premise pizza.

He put the cheese on top. And his thought process was the other brand's pizzas will be amazing the first five minutes, ten minutes. But after five or ten minutes, their thing will drop and mine will remain consistent.

(34:02 - 36:42)

The cheese acting like an insulation, nothing gets burnt for 40 minutes. So I really think as we get into on-premise, off-premise, we really must be the customer for an off-premise. For your restaurant, take the food, hold it in the back of your car for 30 minutes and then ask yourself, is this acceptable? I really think that as we have gone into off-premise everything, this new standard is very important because on your menu, you can very easily mark these are four items which travel best.

What will your customers do? They will buy that. But I really feel that as the world is changing, it's very important to remember that the brand has to deliver, whether it is off-premise, on-premise, everywhere. Because if the brand gets compromised, it does not work.

Simple things on salads. Many a time, the salads come in boxes where the whole box is so compressed, it does not give me the whole flavor of the salad. There are restaurants which have this flat box.

I love that when the salad comes in, I see everything there. Food is visual. Only exception is Chipotle.

I have no clue how genius they were to take a product with a burrito looks always the same once it's wrapped with a tortilla. So that's the only category the food does not have any appetite appeal or visually. But everywhere else, it's the appetite appeal.

So to me, I think all these are very important in this industry is to go through and finally, don't do things what others are doing just because they're doing. You really have to ask yourself because sometimes being different is very, very important. So pause, reflect, but just think about why will you be the customer of your brand? Why will you choose your own restaurant? That is fantastic advice, Arjun.

And it goes back to, I think, what you've been talking about here is humility. There is no way if you don't really have that mentality and become humble enough to see and try to experience what your customer is experiencing. And I think that you know things where I've seen that happen often with operators because they're so in love with their concept that they fail to see really what people are experiencing.

So they can't see it and they're blinded by it. So Arjun, as someone who's worked with iconic brands, I mean, there's so many that you've worked with. Where do you see the restaurant industry heading in the next, let's say, five or ten years? And what should operators be preparing for now? I think the good news is people will continue to eat.

Unlike cars, there's no EV kind of an option. So food to stay. But how we eat, what we eat, how decisions are made will change.

Anytime there's a change, whoever is first to go there will get rewarded. Simple thing. Your family is going to watch a play in downtown area.

(36:42 - 37:36)

You guys want to have dinner before and go there. Why can't the restaurant do call ahead, order ahead, dine in? 7.30. Your table will have the appetizers there. You figure it out.

It'll be so easy for you knowing 7.30 the appetizer will be there and 8 o'clock you guys will just walk out. No payment, nothing like that. So as we are getting into this attention deficit world, we start thinking ahead and there's no more unique categories of dine in, carry out, delivery.

Things will get blended together. So when I get food to you at home, why don't I pause for a second and ask what else you may need at home to have an amazing experience? Let's say you sell this pizza, it's a thin crust, ooey gooey crust. Why don't I put in a pizza cutter? Not everybody has a pizza slicer at home.

(37:37 - 38:24)

Why don't I put something at the end where this is in a box, the box collapses, everything else, and it's easy to recycle, easy to trash. So that way, the cleanup is so much easier. That's the part where I really want us to think that people will keep eating, but how we eat, who we eat with, I think that's very important.

Like Domino's is doing this simple, amazing things. Domino's is realizing that you and I tomorrow will be eating a pizza somewhere which we don't know ahead. It could be at a park, at a picnic with families.

Domino's is going to be there with me always. Beautiful concept and that's the reason Domino's to me, they may not have the best pizzas. I'm still biased towards Papa John's, but Domino's is killing everyone on their market, understanding.

(38:25 - 40:09)

And that's the reason they are one of the most profitable brands in recent times is they get the customer. Anytime I want to know, be, think, feel, they live it. The simple thing about the emergency pizza, brilliant idea, brilliant.

Knowing you have an emergency pizza, what is an emergency pizza? It's a messed up concept, but it feels good. And when people use it, I get emails from people that I use Domino's emergency pizza. Wow, that's what it is.

It makes you feel nobody else is doing it. Yeah, no, absolutely not. That's great, Arjun.

So many restaurant owners feel overwhelmed by the demands of running the business. What's one piece of advice that you'd offer someone trying to grow their brand in today's market? To me, I think growth comes from first, people. Second, restaurants are all about same store sales.

And then of course, you need growth. The people is very important because if your people are not growing, this number two and three won't happen. Your future area managers, if you go to multi-unit are being trained and groomed here.

And I think that's the part where growing people, seeing that people evolve is very important. Second, you have to be creative about growth. A restaurant chain I worked with, Velvet Taco, one of the things we worked was we realized late night, hardly anything is available.

Every city, anywhere you go, usually nine o'clock, 10 o'clock on weekdays, weekend, 11 o'clock, no food after that. After that, if you and I have to meet, we have to meet at a waffle house. There's nothing wrong, but I can do better.

Velvet Taco, these guys are open really late. And all of a sudden, two o'clock, three o'clock, transactions boom. And I really think that's the part where understanding this brand is brilliant to understand that people have a need late night.

(40:10 - 40:22)

These are professionals, these are football teams, hockey teams, they're coming in. There are cool people who are just walking around late night, but they won't do it. So I really think to understand as you start growing, and the third part of the growth is unit growth.

(40:23 - 41:37)

Unit growth comes from capital, of course, but before you start growing, you really must have plans of what you don't change. As you're growing to five units, 10 units, if you start making changes, simple signage is going to cost you. Simple signage will disrupt you.

So you have to fix, figure everything out with your prototype before you start getting into growth. Because growth means doing the same thing, same way in multiple locations, which is a much more difficult task. And our worst enemy we become, if the entrepreneur mindset makes tweaking things, make micro changes, oh, that's disaster.

I worked with brands where I've had different logos in different restaurants. That's not branding. Branding is one brand.

So that's my big request is figure it out before you get into growth, but invest in your people because without your people, no amount of money can help you. Man, yeah, that's great advice. Thank you for that, Arjun.

Final question, Arjun, this is more on a personal level to you. If you could distill your legacy into one sentence, what you want to be remembered for in the restaurant industry, what would it be and why? That's a tough question. I want to be remembered by the friends I made.

(41:39 - 42:25)

Any two people can work together. Any two people can be lucky to win together. But years later, if I'm in your town and I reach out to you and you meet me for a cup of coffee and we have an amazing time, that means we did something good together.

When I look at Papa John's, the CFO, he is right now in Lexington, David Flannery. We don't meet, we don't talk. But after all these years, every time we are in each other's world, or we even we call each other, the friendship goes forever.

And I think that's what matters because it's not about being successful as business people. It's the personal friendships that we make, which I think I cherish a lot. And I really would love to be friends to as many people with whom my paths crossed.

But that's a great question. I never answered that question before. Thank you.

(42:26 - 43:14)

Welcome, welcome. I mean, that's a great answer. And couldn't agree more.

It's easy to get sidetracked by so many things and not realize what's truly important. And only, I think, difficult experience if we're lucky to wake up and to see those things. So Arjun, again, thank you so much for your time.

It was such a pleasure to have you. And thank you so much for sharing all your insights. I am sure people in our audience will get so much from it.

So Arjun, if restaurant owners or operators, somebody wants to get a hold of you and get in touch with you and work with you, where can they find you? They can find me at Arjun at Zen Mango. Zen is mango, the fruit, zenmango.com. Fantastic. Well, Arjun, again, thank you so much.

It's such a pleasure. And I hope to someday meet you actually in person. I'll probably hopefully see you at a restaurant or somewhere that we can actually meet and have a cup of coffee.

(43:15 - 43:17)

Thank you for taking the time. Thank you.