Leadership Without Hierarchy: Brian Nasajon’s Recipe for Restaurant Success

In this episode of Restaurant Leaders Unplugged, Brian Nasajon, chef and restaurateur, shares his journey from a philosophy student to the helm of Beaker & Gray, and now Avenue Gray. Discover his leadership philosophy, the importance of humility in running a restaurant, and why he believes in leading without hierarchy. Brian also discusses the future of the restaurant industry, key mistakes owners make, and what it takes to create a sustainable business in today’s challenging market.

Connect with our guest:
 🔹 Website: https://avenuegray.com/
🔹 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/briannasajon/

Restaurant Leaders Unplugged with Sebastian Stahl

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Transcript

(0:00 - 0:10)

Everyone is equal. There is no hierarchy, this imaginary hierarchy of business or of a restaurant or that I am your executive chef. It's made up with all the respect in the world.

(0:10 - 0:27)

Of course, it's made up. It's something that we decided arbitrarily, right? You are a person and I'm a person. And at the end of the day, yes, we signed a contract where I'm paying you money for a job that you're going to do, but that's an exchange, you're not indebted to me because I gave you money, you're exchanging it with work.

(0:27 - 1:12)

So first of all, I think recognizing that and realizing that after everything you take away, the business, the way you are my equal and on the streets were equals and in here were equals, they are going to recognize that you had a certain amount of pressure on you because you have to be that business and they're going to want you to see it because they see that you're respecting them, that you're respecting them as an asset, as a part of the team, not as someone that worked for you. Welcome to the Restaurant Leaders Unplugged podcast, where real talks with restaurant leaders take center stage, discover the challenges and victories that define success in the culinary world. Dive into essential strategies from marketing to operations and gain insights that will transform your approach to your restaurant business.

(1:12 - 1:20)

Don't just keep up, lead the way. Join me, your host, Sebastian Stahl on this journey to excellence. Welcome to the Restaurant Leaders Unplugged podcast.

(1:20 - 1:26)

This is Sebastian Stahl speaking here. Today we have an awesome guest. Welcome, Brian.

(1:26 - 1:28)

Thank you. Thank you for having me. All right, my friend.

(1:29 - 1:44)

So Brian, let's get started with how you get started in this beautiful and crazy journey of restaurants. Can you share a little bit of your background story? Yeah, of course. A little bit by chance, but everything's a little bit by chance, right? So cooking's always been in the family.

(1:44 - 2:03)

My grandfather was a chef in Argentina and I opened a little place down here and it was always around the family, but never something that took very seriously. I was actually more music oriented when I was younger. So I went to NYU and I remember I stopped doing music and I started studying philosophy, which really has no career.

(2:03 - 2:10)

You're either writing a book or teaching a class, things like I did not want. Yep. And I remember my senior year, just really not knowing what was going to happen.

(2:11 - 2:20)

And I had a friend who was an architect major and he also did not want to do it. And he just stopped school and I'm going to go work for work in some kitchen. I remember exactly what it was, somewhere near.

(2:21 - 2:28)

And when he told me that, I just thought it was the coolest thing I ever heard. I don't know why. It just seems like such a cool idea to go work in a kitchen.

(2:28 - 2:41)

I did like cooking, but never, never seriously like that. And I had a friend then at the time whose uncle was the executive chef at Lord Fish Bar, Josh Capon. So I figured I'll shoot him an email, see what information I can get.

(2:41 - 2:46)

I was thinking, what culinary school? I didn't know. I just wanted some guidance. So I shot him an email.

(2:46 - 2:55)

I said, can I come down and sit and talk to you for a few minutes? He said, yeah, of course. He sat down with me and he said, do not go to culinary school. You already did college.

(2:55 - 3:03)

You're going to throw money away. He said, everyone right now, you know, top chef was getting big. He said, everyone's glorifying the industry.

(3:03 - 3:17)

And let me tell you, it is nothing to war, right? You, you love it, but 90% of people will absolutely hate it. And he told me, you know, I got some guy, same thing came in and said, I went, I want to be a chef. Within 30 days, the guy said, I'm never doing this again.

(3:18 - 3:23)

He said, so this is what I suggest. Go find a restaurant that you like. Work there for free for a month.

(3:23 - 3:32)

Do you like it? And I said, OK, let me work here for free. And he said, oh, you want to do it here? And I said, I would love to do it here. Take me on for free.

(3:32 - 3:42)

And he said, OK. And I ended up within one week just being so obsessed with the kitchen. So I worked there for the next year for free.

(3:43 - 3:49)

I did not want to leave. So my entire senior year after class, I would just go straight there. I would work at night the entire time.

(3:49 - 3:57)

And I was just so obsessed with it. I couldn't wait to get back in. And I ended up leaving just because New York was just too expensive at that time.

(3:57 - 4:10)

So he had offered me a job, but, you know, to have to trek over from Queens or Bronx, deep Bronx, you know, an hour a day, an hour back every day to get the job. I said, look, I'd love to stay, but I got to go. I got to go back to Miami.

(4:10 - 4:17)

I will work for a quality of life there. And that's how it started. And I got quickly connected here in Miami with with Wish Cafe, with, you know, another man.

(4:17 - 4:20)

Oh, yeah. Yeah. That's how I really started.

(4:20 - 4:31)

That's fantastic, man. So tell me a little bit about, you know, after that, that initial start, what happened after that and how did you get into restaurant ownership? When did you decide, like, hey, man, this is cool. Like working for these restaurants.

(4:31 - 4:43)

I want to do my own thing. OK, so at first I realized that I was backed up, right? I was already 22 or 23 and wasted a lot of time. And in this industry, you got to start strong.

(4:43 - 4:58)

So I got, again, really hyper focused on asking a ton of questions. So I started really asking why to absolutely everything, why we're doing this, why is this and I would really spend as much time as I could trying to understand it. And that got me to go up a ladder fairly quickly.

(4:58 - 5:11)

So they made me the chef to cuisine there within two and a half years, three years. And I had just those three or three and a half years of experience. Then right after I got sent over, the restaurant closed, but I got sent over to be the executive studio at Sushi Samba.

(5:11 - 5:18)

And again, question, question, questions. They made me the executive chef six months after there. And I was doing both restaurants.

(5:18 - 5:44)

So I realized that while this industry is challenging, if you take the necessary steps and you ask the right things and you really hyper focus on making it happen, you can get there quickly. So after three years of Sushi Samba, I got incredibly motivated to just do something about it had been a lot of work there. I realized that in that big company, there was only so hot to get to.

(5:44 - 5:53)

We had a corporate chef, great place to work for him, but it's just I needed to start having my own. I was just feeling it. I was already 20, 28, 27, 28 around that time.

(5:54 - 6:02)

So I said, I'm going to leave. I'm going, you know, respectfully, we have a great party. It wasn't on bad terms.

(6:02 - 6:12)

And I'm going to figure this out, whatever that means. I just knew that I had to figure out a new. So I left and I started, I took about a month off just to kind of clear my mind.

(6:13 - 6:25)

And at that time I was talking to my father and he said, what are you going to do? And I was, you know, I don't know. I may go work for someone, love to open up my own restaurant. I don't know what the necessary steps are, you know, like capital, of course, you need to have money.

(6:26 - 6:36)

And he said, why don't we do this together? And I said, really, it'd be interesting. And he said, what do you mean? I would love to, you know, open a business with my son. I'd love to do that.

(6:36 - 6:40)

I know nothing about it, but I'd love to take that risk. Right. Wow.

(6:41 - 7:12)

So we started looking and within, I don't know, maybe a month, we found the space that we were in her beaker and the third person has started aligning and all of a sudden, you know, there's always this checklist of obstacles you have to overcome for these projects to happen, you know, find the place, find one, find, make sure the causes are right, find the GCs, make sure everything's in place. And then every single obstacle just started falling into place. And we said, Oh, Hey, this is looking like it's becoming more real, more real.

(7:13 - 7:20)

Along that way, Ben was my best friend. It was similar. We took a very similar path in his industry as well.

(7:20 - 7:35)

But outro world, we were talking and I'd always wanted to do something with him as well. We had been speaking for a while and he said, let's do something together. He came on board and boom, we conceptualized Beaker and Gray and then that's very cool, man.

(7:35 - 8:17)

So tell me a little bit about, if you can share a little bit about the concept itself, like what was Beaker and Gray like inspired and how'd you guys come up with that concept? So while we took our paths very separately, I mean, it was like similar times, but we took it independently of each other. We always had a very similar approach, right? We always wanted to respect the quality of what we, for us integrity and quality was beyond and across the board, not just on the products, but on the service, on how we treated our staffs, on the rates, every, we just want to make sure that all you're going to do was worthy. First, we aligned with that mentality and we said, whatever we do here, it's not going to necessarily be about concepts, but it's going to be about quality.

(8:17 - 8:24)

It's going to be about what, what quarters we don't cut, right? That was the goal. Let's not cut quarters. Let's do things the right way.

(8:24 - 8:42)

Not overstanding everything cautiously, but the right way within our means. So we really started trying to think of a concept that we could showcase that. And we realized that it wasn't because it wasn't about concepts and it was just about making something.

(8:43 - 8:46)

That's kind of what became Beaker, right? It wasn't a time. It wasn't Latin America. It wasn't French.

(8:46 - 9:20)

It was what do we want to do here? Let's have fun with this, right? Let's create a product we're going to enjoy that we want to enjoy not only making, but also consuming something that we would want to feel comfortable with, create an approachable environment where someone can come and really just connect with what we're doing and not feel intimidated by the environment, feel intimidated by the product, just kind of let loose. You know, we always believe that you can't really enjoy something that you're guarding, right? There's always this sense, right? When you go somewhere that's a little too fine dining and there's this, you have to kind of break a wall when you get there, even within yourself, right? It makes you feel observed. You don't feel like you're doing something wrong.

(9:21 - 9:42)

We're all a little insecure in those moments anywhere, right? Yeah. So it was really important for us that we took those walls down for people, but they didn't feel like they couldn't approach us and that was across the board with the place, with the service, and also with the product, we wanted them to have a really unique and fun experience, but it had to be translated in very approachable ways, approachability was very important for us as well. Yeah.

(9:42 - 9:51)

And, and that's it, you know, we said no rules here. Let's just do whatever we think is going to be fun, good, awesome, and just do it. And if we get tired of it, change it.

(9:51 - 9:56)

And then, and that's what it was. It was just us really having fun with our ideas. Yeah.

(9:56 - 10:02)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Now then listen, man, it really is a, was a great concept. I think everything was executed perfectly.

(10:02 - 10:21)

I think it definitely speaks to your personality. I think it definitely bends, man. So Ryan, for restauranteurs or for chefs out there that have been working at restaurants or thinking about starting a business, what were the main differences that you found between working in a business or for somebody else and then going into business for yourself? Can you share some insights on that? Yeah.

(10:21 - 10:36)

Well, two different worlds, right? You definitely have to look at things way more cautious than you would before. Not with fear. I always say fear is never going to get you anywhere, right? Because then you don't make decisions that you should because you're nervous about the outcome.

(10:37 - 10:50)

But caution to me is very important. I think that you have to be incredibly thorough with every decision that you make and not to say that you don't have to be, if it's not your place. I think that every position merits that kind of attention and focus.

(10:50 - 11:04)

If you're an executive chef and it's not your place, you know, you still need to treat that role as if it's your own restaurant. I tell all the line cooks that come to Bucher and they were trained, well, they used to come to Bucher. I would say you need to treat your station like this is your restaurant.

(11:05 - 11:13)

Every decision that you make for this station is your restaurant. You need to own every little bit of it because you're accountable. You're responsible for everything that happens here.

(11:14 - 11:46)

Similarly, the restaurant is like your station where you have a ton more things to manage, a lot more checks that you have to pay. There's a lot more risk, of course, a lot more possibilities that things going wrong, but I think that if every decision that you make is intentional and every decision that you make has been thought up and you are not impulsive, you are really understanding the reason that you're making a certain decision, right? Those decisions have to be first or no. Yeah.

(11:46 - 11:59)

And it should be okay. Uh, I think that you just can't be fearful of decisions. You just have to trust your process to make sure that process replaced responsibility, caution and none.

(11:59 - 12:02)

Yeah, absolutely. Man. And you're always going to mess up.

(12:02 - 12:10)

You know what I mean? Well, that's good. That's how you learn, right? I mean, everyone will say that, but you have to embrace the mess. Yeah.

(12:10 - 12:16)

Yeah. Well, Brian, listen, man. I mean, you guys had this restaurant for how many years? Oh, years.

(12:16 - 12:22)

Okay. So 10 years. So Brian, 10 years in this business is extremely tough.

(12:22 - 12:38)

Yeah. We're, we're very, very proud. So what do you think are the key elements that made you guys sustainable in what would you say would make the restaurant sustainable in this market, meaning not just Miami, but in just the current landscape, any insights on that? That's a great question.

(12:39 - 13:05)

I think first and foremost, and not that I never thought about this, but the first thing that I think can inspire me to do that is humility. I think you have to be willing to accept that you don't know what the best thing is. So learn from everyone around you and don't be arrogant in forcing your own belief systems and your own thoughts into a process, understand that things change and that you may be doing something wrong.

(13:05 - 13:14)

And that if you open yourself to the idea that you are doing something wrong, there's a better way to do it. And that's going to bad hit you. So be willing to learn from everyone and everything around you.

(13:14 - 13:28)

That is crucial to me, right? You are not the owner of the truth and there may not be a truth. So really just try to absorb whatever you can around you. And that's going to shine a lot of light on what you need to be doing.

(13:29 - 13:54)

Right? Also, this is something that I think is probably the most important thing and not just in this industry, but across the board in all industries, we're all humans, right? We're all people. And I think the people that you end up employing that become your company are your product, you can't see what you serve, what you do from the people that serve it. So you have to foster an environment where there is harmony.

(13:54 - 14:30)

And if you are treating humans like just employees, there's just no way there's going to be harmony. There's no way that you're going to get them to really want to be on your team, to be on your side and serve the best product that they can. So I've always gone by the philosophy of if you have a member on your team, that is let's say not doing what you've asked them to do, right? There's two reasons why either A, you haven't explained what they should be doing properly and that's it, or they don't really care, in which case that doesn't make them a bad person.

(14:30 - 14:55)

That just makes them not ripe for this team, right? So there's never a place, there's never a time to mistreat someone, to speak to them in any kind of mean way. There is a time to let someone go, but creating that team of people that want to be there, that are going to respect the place and the product and you is incredibly important and that always starts, I think, with management. I think it's always a manager's fault for why the employee doesn't do the right job.

(14:56 - 15:10)

So I think that mentality is so crucial in any operation for a business because if they're not going to learn from that, they're going to want to learn from you, they're going to bring in the right thing. So those things to me are super. Yeah.

(15:10 - 15:23)

Yeah, no, definitely. I mean, you mentioned a very important thing here, an aspect of, I think, of leadership, which is really a lot what this podcast is about, talking about humility. I hear it mentioned this attribute or this principle, whatever you want to call it.

(15:23 - 15:43)

It's in a lot of conversations that we have when we talk about leadership, right? Because it's like keeping that, having that student mentality. So besides humility, because we just addressed it. What is your leadership style, Brian? What do you think has helped you be successful in leading a team for 10 years and for Beaker and in general for your projects? Well, two things.

(15:43 - 15:49)

One is the one I just mentioned. I think realizing that everyone is equal. There is no hierarchy.

(15:49 - 16:10)

This imaginary hierarchy of business or of a restaurant or that I'm your executive chef, it's made with all the respect in the world, of course, it's made up. It's something that we decided arbitrarily, right? You are a person and I'm a person. And at the end of the day, yes, we signed a contract where I'm paying you money for a job that you're going to do, but that's an exchange.

(16:10 - 16:14)

You're not indebted to me because I gave you money. You're exchanging. It would work.

(16:14 - 16:52)

That's not working out. That's a, so first of all, I think recognizing that and realizing that after everything you take away the business, the way you are my equal and on the streets were equal and in here were equal, they are going to recognize that you had a certain amount of pressure on you because you have to be that business and they're going to want you to succeed because they see that you're respecting them, that you're respecting them as an asset, as a part of the team, not as someone that worked for you. So I think that was very, very, and second, I think, and I'm sure you get this all the time, but leading by example to me is absolutely necessary.

(16:52 - 16:58)

You need to be there with, you have to be there with them. You can't just delegate every single piece of work. I mean, of course they're in there.

(16:58 - 17:30)

You have to delegate because that's the nature of the structure, but you can't just expect more from them than you expect from yourself and I think making sure that you always expect more from yourself and from them is also going to lead to. For sure, man. I think any project or, I mean, when you go in as a restaurant owner, leadership is just something that you learn through experience, right? Through going through the motions and messing up, right? But I think what you just said is so key, man.

(17:30 - 17:42)

Just having that mentality that there's no hierarchy, like you're there to lead, not to be the boss. And look, as a boss, you're going to make mistakes too, just like they will. It's not about the mistake.

(17:42 - 17:47)

It's about where do they say come from? Like you made a mistake. You're a human being. Everyone makes mistakes.

(17:47 - 17:53)

Whether you own the place, whether you work for the place, that's fine. Yeah. You know, that's completely fine.

(17:53 - 18:05)

What's not acceptable is when people share it, right? When they know they shouldn't be doing something. And again, calling them acceptable is really biometric that you develop for your place. You can just say, look, I get that this isn't for you.

(18:05 - 18:09)

Let's just go separate ways. But people just, they make mistakes. All of us make mistakes.

(18:09 - 18:17)

And you can accept their mistakes. We're going to accept yours because it happens all the time. And police say, man, my boss is constantly messing up.

(18:18 - 18:29)

Why do I need to pay attention to that? But they're going to embrace it. And accept your mistakes if you accept theirs. And accepting it doesn't mean brush off and not tense, but not close them for a mistake.

(18:29 - 18:31)

It's a mistake. Yeah. Yeah, no, a hundred percent.

(18:31 - 18:50)

And I think we share similar mindsets and similar philosophies of how leadership is or should be. And Brian, when it comes to the emotional part, man, because this is something that I think it's crucial when you are in a leadership position, you're going to deal with a lot of issues, you're going to deal with a lot of problems. And then you're going to have to deal with a lot of fears.

(18:50 - 19:16)

Right. Because you were talking about fear at the beginning. 10 years of experience of running a restaurant, man, I'm sure you've seen everything you went through the pandemic, you went through ups and downs, you've gone through all of these things that happen, what, if any, like tools or any insights that you can share on how to maintain an emotional balance in the midst of all this stuff that happens in running a business, because people sometimes say, I want to open a restaurant, I want to get into this business or whatever other business.

(19:16 - 20:36)

And man, like, I don't think it's for everybody, honestly, because it requires a certain mindset and a certain acceptance of how things happen and are that not everybody's built for that. But first of all, deep question, one that probably narrates its own episode in time, right? But let me answer this as simply as I can, because it's something that I probably speak to myself about fear is not just fear, I mean, all kinds of negative thoughts constantly, because we're, we as humans are ridden by this, right? It is our nature to be inundated in these thoughts, not just fear, jealousy, vanity, laziness, all those things inundate us. So for me personally, what's helped me really is that I noticed that I feel those, why I received those thoughts exclusively in correlation to my energy roles, low energy, when I'm tired and in sleep, what I didn't exercise and eat well in it before I wake up and I feel the heaviness of the day almost instantaneously, I don't know if you're a coffee drinker, but for those that are coffee drinkers, that first cup of coffee, all of a sudden you go from grog to, well, I'm in a good mood all of a sudden.

(20:36 - 20:46)

Right. And that is in a gamble of how high energy can really change the filter through which you see things. So I tell myself, look, everything is what it needs to be.

(20:46 - 20:55)

Everything is. And what changes is really the filter through which we look at it. You can see the same thing through one lens, through one filter or fear is one filter.

(20:56 - 21:00)

Leasing is another filter, man. I don't want to get to this right now to be like doing it. I'm just going to stay at home.

(21:00 - 21:12)

All those things are filtered, right? So how do we, how do we control those filters for me personally? What's always helped me keep the negative filters away. And I'm going to say a state of no filter. I've seen neutrality.

(21:12 - 21:17)

You'll always see things that this is awesome. It's been a workout. That's the note filter.

(21:17 - 21:27)

All the filters that we have are the negative one. I have to maximize my energy. So for me, my primary focus, apart from what I need to accomplish at work is how to take care of us.

(21:28 - 21:37)

So I need to make sure I'm aligned with what I know works best for me. I'm not saying there's a universal formula that everyone should meet gluten finish. No, I think everyone has their own formula.

(21:37 - 21:45)

But stay aligned with what works for you. Get sleep. If you have to stay away from things, I make for me, person, things that drain my energy.

(21:46 - 21:58)

For me personally drinking too much during my energy. So it may not for others, but I know that would need that. So I just need to the indicator that say, Hey, this is going to make you feel like shit the next day.

(21:58 - 22:07)

For sure. When I remember what my first sous chef job, I wish when they had just promoted me to sous chef. I remember going out the night before and it got to work the next day.

(22:08 - 22:22)

And my ability to function, my ability to do the job the way I want it. And not just physically, but emotionally, like you said, at the beginning of your question, that emotion, I was anxiety, I just felt insecure. I felt like I was being watched.

(22:22 - 22:28)

I felt like I wasn't doing the job correctly. I don't not want to feel this way. I just don't want to feel this way.

(22:29 - 22:38)

And I'm drinking for a long time after that. And I just realized that that correlation of high energy, low energy to how I'm going to proceed my job. It's everything.

(22:38 - 22:55)

And I just tried to apply that to everything in my life. So what ends up happening is when I start to feel those negative emotions, I say, this is a filter right now. So instead of having a conversation with those thoughts, instead of indulging those thoughts, I say, they're going to tell you whatever they want right now, because you're lower.

(22:56 - 23:07)

Get through this and see what you need to do today and tomorrow. Bring those energy levels back up because you're going to see the same situation, there will no lens and you know, I'll be awesome. A hundred percent, man.

(23:07 - 23:17)

That's a great way of putting it, Brian. I mean, of course it's all about perception, but the filters I've actually haven't heard. Well, yeah, man, it is about that, you know, and in this industry, man, which is tough sometimes.

(23:17 - 23:21)

I mean, what you're talking about requires a lot of self-awareness as well. Yeah. You got to be honest with yourself.

(23:21 - 23:27)

Yeah. You got to say, this is, and I know this is fun, but it depends on my energy. You have to be honest with yourself.

(23:28 - 23:41)

Yeah. Especially in this industry, man, because it's hard, right? Because long hours and especially as Noto was like, okay, it's normal to work 12, 16 hours a day or whatever it is. And sometimes it's even revered as like, oh, I worked these many hours.

(23:41 - 23:43)

And whatever it is. Yeah, right. It's exactly.

(23:44 - 23:58)

So you, you have to kind of go against what everybody's telling you and say, no, no, I got to take care of myself and that got to eat right. I got to exercise, got to have time for all of these things. So then you can really perform at your best level when, when you have to.

(23:59 - 24:15)

Yeah. That's cool, man. So when it comes to leadership, another part that's important, are your systems, right? Because you need a team, right? And you can have a great team, but then if you don't have the right systems in place, all hell will break loose at your restaurant operation.

(24:16 - 24:34)

So what are some of the things that you've learned over the years, right? In terms of systems and anything that you want to, that you can share with restaurant owners, audience that are listening, that can help them into executing property. Cause I mean, again, you guys run this business for quite a bit of time and the operation was excellent. Thank you.

(24:35 - 24:45)

I can't try that. There is a universal system, no worker, right? And every operation is completely, there's definitely a philosophical approach to, to systematizing your business. And one is may not be meticulous.

(24:46 - 24:50)

You can't be lazy. You just can't. You have to be repetitive in the decisions that you make.

(24:50 - 25:00)

So if I have to place my orders every day at this time, I can't not do it. I can't allow myself to say, well, I won't do it today. I'll do it.

(25:00 - 25:13)

I'll catch up tomorrow. Once you start doing that, then you really start to stray from whatever the system that you create. But if we're going to speak generally, I do think that writing everything down, creating lists for oneself is fundamental to getting things done.

(25:13 - 25:23)

I do not lean on my memory. While I think I have a strong memory. I think that if you are saturated with data, you are very easily distracted from what you have to do.

(25:23 - 25:43)

And lists to me are absolutely everything. And that goes from, if you're a line clerk to, if you're an accountant to, or if you're an executive chef, creating lists are absolutely everything. Lean less on your instincts and more on your lists because they will always remind you of the things that you may forget.

(25:43 - 25:53)

So again, that'll translate to everything. So what I'm going to do for the next day, what this person has to do, correct list, my order guides, everything is listed. Everything is written down.

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And it has to be in a way that is understandable by anyone, because the day that I'm sick or I'm not there, the other person has to keep up. So organization is everything to me. You can't not be organized.

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Things have to be in its place. You have to translate that to the staff. They have to respect where everything has to be in order.

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That structure that you cannot break will essentially create an infrastructure that will make your life so much easier and will make the nuances, the things that you have to all of a sudden put out, the fires you need to put out so much easier. We will make way less energy in trying to put those fires out or trying to excel because the infrastructure is already there. So at the beginning, just make sure everything is in its place.

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It's organized and it walks through absolutely everything over and over and over, but organization and writing lists are everything to me. Yeah. What you were just saying, it's in a nutshell, that's it, man.

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It's just about getting everything documented and setting all those processes up so that you have something to follow. Then everybody can follow those. Yeah.

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You can let me say, because I said earlier, we're humans. So we made mistakes all the time. And there's no way around that.

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It doesn't matter how perfect you are. There's no way around that. So you need something to lean on, you know, get yourself the tool.

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That's it. That's it, Brands. I know that now you've shifted into something a little bit different.

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Tell us a little bit about your new project with Avenue Gray and what are you doing with that? Yeah. So, okay. So Avenue Gray is a consulting company that I launched.

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And it has two outlets, right? First of all, I need to preface this. I love operation. I love being there.

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I love grinding. And a big part of me misses it. And a big part of me is tempted every single day to open up a new restaurant and get it right back into it.

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I have a wife, I have a five-year-old daughter. So the switch of schedule has really allowed me to spend a lot more time with them. Well, that said, I started seeing that the industry got so saturated, like we were speaking about earlier, with new operations.

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And not every operation is being managed the right way. So this consulting company does two things. So at A, it's the consulting service.

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So I go into your restaurant or any operation that has a backer house. And I will give you aid in four areas. One is going to be created.

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So if you need a new menu, I'll help you come up with more ideas. We'll talk about trains. We'll talk about where you want your menu to go, the direction.

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And we'll create something together. Or if you have a menu, you just need some improving, some modernizing, whatever it is, we'll work on it together. That's the creative aspect.

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There is a training aspect as well. I come in, I deal with your staff, your prep cooks, butchering, your line cooks on grilling, frying, sautéing, your expediters, if they need to understand how to communicate to the kitchen staff, whatever it is. And do a full training as well.

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I do administrative. So like we were speaking about these lists, I go in, I audit your entire operation and I break those lists for you. I create your checkout list, your check-in list, your station list, your order guides, your inventory lists, all that stuff.

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And lastly, there would be costing aspect of everything, the cost efficiency. So I make sure that everything is engineered. I make sure that you're getting the right prices.

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I make sure that you're yielding the product right. And your inventories are being counted properly, your food costs are where they need to be. And I educate whoever's there on the importance of understanding exactly how much it costs.

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And then there's the consulting service. What I think is more unique is the management service. And just like there are a saturation of restaurants right now, because of that, labor has just gotten so great.

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So a lot of these restaurants are not able to afford executive chefs, at least full-time executive chefs. And there is an absolute need for executive chefs. I mean, someone has to be there, but again, you say, okay, I need something, but if I hire that thing, it's going to eat up all my money and then I'm going to close.

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So what do I do? Right. So I created this management service where Avenue Gray goes and it's either myself or someone on my team, and we give you part-time chef service, executive chef service, where one of us will be on site once, twice a week, whatever your operation is, whatever the contract calls for, and we will be your executive chef for those sheds. And afterwards, if you need to eat or if you need someone to call for guidance, for questions, you know, where do I get this products from? How can I better price this? Should I be doing this? Should I train this? You have that on call. Well, that essentially it's an ad hoc executive chef, that part time executive chef who will guide you through that process without you needing to pay the full time.

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So it works out for people because they get the need covered and they don't have to break their bank account with a full time executive chef. That's a great concept. And I think it really is perfect for the current market that we're in.

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Yeah, it's a unique time. It is. It is.

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So it's a fractional executive chef service, basically. Right. It's a fractional executive chef.

Exactly. This is very cool. So now that you're working with other restaurants, Brian, what are some common mistakes that you see that restaurant owners are making and how can they avoid them? Really good question.

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So a lot of times I see the owners won't involve themselves enough in the operation, right? So it's really challenging to expect from an employee to treat their places in a way that an owner will treat it. So there has to be some kind of involvement, right? There has to be some kind of exchange with your staff, some kind of eyes on the field that will let them see what's going on. And with that, though, there has to be some kind of system in place that will give them the tools to see what's going on.

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I see some operators that are incredibly hands-on and those are very successful restaurants. There's a deep correlation between hands-on owners that are in the operation versus the ones that say, hey, the business should be running. So I think that hands-on approach as overwhelming and as tiring as it can be is imperative.

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It really is, at least to some extent. And also it makes the staff feel appreciated as well. Makes them feel like someone is involved.

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That may be the other the other thing that I see. It's that that sense of hierarchy that I think. There's this misconception that let me be specific.

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I think it's really important to while we are equal as humans, I do think it's important to keep a very specific distance from this. You can't you can do whatever you want. But I think it can be dangerous if you start to socialize too much with your staff, you start to go out and have drinks with them.

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And, you know, and that relationship becomes a little troll informal because they may not take your leadership seriously. And again, I think with the right staff and the right mentality, you can get away with it. But it's a very delicate one that needs to be respected.

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That said, I think that there's been this misconception that we have to lead with a hammer versus with love. And I've noticed that, like we were saying earlier about celebrating or glorifying the wrong things, I think sometimes that sends it. Oh, you yelled at that guy.

Good job. He deserved to be spoken to and he deserved to get reprimanded like that. That glorification of managing your staff to me is so dangerous because if you're already a hands off or and you're speaking to yourself like that, you may correct the issue in that moment.

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But I promise you, the second you turn your back, they will not be caring and do the same exact thing. So you may have had a whole show in front of you and reprimanded that person. All right.

Everyone saw how bad he streams it. And I promise you, it's not last. So I think it's really important that that love, that respect and that camaraderie for your team, for the people that are working, they're generating the money for your business is respected.

(33:43 - 34:00)

And I see that there's not always, but I think in a lot of places that is. Yeah, no, absolutely. And Brian, we're in a kind of, I would say, unique or strange times in the restaurant industry, right, with the cost or not just for labor, real estate, like all of these things that are happening.

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How do you see the restaurant industry evolving in the next, let's say, three to five years? It's difficult to say because I do think everything's cyclical. I think that everything we could predict that it may come back to there's a lot of big restaurants right now, a lot of big business, a lot of big money being thrown around everywhere. And we may go back to seeing smaller mom and pops after that trend goes down.

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I don't know how long the cycle is. So it's hard to say. Is the cycle ten years? Is it three years? Is it five to six years? I think what's going to happen if I had to really predict what's going to happen.

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It's saturated, right? There are so many restaurants, right? So many. And because of costs, they are not cheap. People are struggling right now to spend a lot of money on restaurants.

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And when they have so many, you don't have such a massive client pool to the people that are going out to restaurants or that needed amongst all the restaurants. I think inevitably there's going to be a lot closing and that will shine light on what's going to happen. I think there'll probably be a lot of restaurants that do close in the future.

(35:06 - 35:24)

I don't know how long that's going to take to hold out. And it may be two years and maybe four years, maybe five years. But I think what's going to happen is after that, essentially closing of all the rest, I mean, either that or we have a massive influx of more populations, Miami, which is going to be crazy because it's a ready puppet everywhere.

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It steals that. But it has to stabilize at some point. Something has to stabilize because it's just so crazy right now.

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So I think there's probably going to be some closures and it's going to be some kind of leaning back towards the let's go to simple stuff from over having spent one hundred fifty dollars for a sake I'm around to spend this. I want to feel like I can go out to a normal place and it's just going to be her food and Phil and have a good time. I think we'll start seeing some of those trends.

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I don't know about the timeline because, you know, this is pretty unique what's going on right now. So I don't know how long that cycle is. But I think we'll go back and we'll probably be back in a situation like this again at the other end.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. So if you were going to open a restaurant from scratch today, what we were just talking about first, what would it be? And what would you do differently? I would shoot for what we're saying. I would totally shoot for something that's neighborhood, something that people can relate to.

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I think that Beaker and Grey was a good story that we told. Yeah, I think that I'm very proud of it. And I think it ended in a great place.

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And I think like all good movies had a good start and a good end. I think I would want to go for something that maybe the story isn't so exciting, but that is heartwarming, something that is that I can or people can relate to all over all kinds of people that go to it. Like I said, feel the same feelings.

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I can approach this completely unguarded, but with more familiar things, with a sense of home. I think it's important that people start to feel like a restaurant maybe is a little bit more homey, not necessarily in the aesthetic or the ambiance, but in the experience, just the general feeling of I like this and I want to be back in this. And I think that could be translated in simplicity.

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But again, integrity, quality. So I think in terms of concept, it doesn't matter. I don't think it matters what's toilet cuisine.

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I don't think it matters. I think it's more about how do we generate that feel. And I think that's what I would go for.

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Less of a trend, more of a home for people. That's good, Brian. I mean, I think you might open up a place again.

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I'm telling you, it's my love. I haven't really been speaking about it and it may happen. You're thinking about it, man.

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Yeah, I don't know. I feel you, man, because when you're talking about it, you get excited. And I can see it.

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It's more horrible, isn't it, for sure. That's so cool, man. So lastly, to finalize, Brian, so two things here.

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What's one of the most, I guess, impacting or memorable piece of advice you received in your career as a restaurateur and chef? And what advice would you give to other restaurateurs and chefs that are starting out? My father, he always, whenever we spoke about how much the restaurant can make or whatever, you know, it's going to generate this. He always had a thing. He'd say, yeah, but minus taxes, right? Minus taxes.

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Well, a hundred percent minus taxes. Oh, everything minus taxes. Don't forget about taxes.

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The advice that really that I got from that is be realistic about what it takes and what to expect. You know, we can all get very eager on what we imagine the outcome to be. And that excitement, that eagerness will easily turn into being impulsive.

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And that's dangerous, right? This industry will swallow up all your money. It will swallow up all your time, your sweat, your energy. So it's good to be excited, but just be aware of everything that can happen.

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And be prepared for those things. Don't make decisions out of justice and be really aware of everything. And there are so many things.

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So every decision you make, like I said, at the beginning is make it intentional. Make it cautiously be excited because excitement and passion are ever, you know, don't, don't take the excitement out. Don't be pessimistic.

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There's a fine line between being pessimistic, cautious. Just take the necessary steps. Don't be impatient.

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Just make the right decision. Take the risk. A risk is good.

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It's important. It's necessary. But don't be impulsive.

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That's probably the best advice. Be aware of everything that's going on. And in this industry, you really need to not rush into any decisions.

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Yeah, man. That's great advice. It really is.

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And I think that applies for every business, right? I mean, you just said it, man. You go really excited, especially in restaurants, because we get so excited about the concepts and food, and it's just a passionate business in general. So you can make rash decisions.

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Like you envision this and you're like, yeah, let's go. Yeah. Let's invest in it.

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Let's get the tickets. And they're done that, man. So I know exactly what you're talking about.

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And I remember being, you're just like, ah, I don't exist. But yeah, it's human nature. For sure.

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But it always takes more time, more money, just patience. I think that's the key, man. Patience, consistency, and just kind of maintain this level of excitement, but not too excited because like you can go overboard with rash decisions.

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That's really great advice, Ryan. That's fantastic. I think you're already helping a lot of restaurant owners.

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I think you're going to be able to help a lot of more restaurant owners with Avenue Gray. And for sure, serve a lot of people if you open a new restaurant. So, right.

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If somebody wants to contact you and is looking for help with their restaurants, tell us how they can get in touch with you through Avenue Gray. Are you working locally only in Miami or like anywhere in the US? You're available. Yeah, I'll go anywhere in the U.S. I'll travel.

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They can either, you know, me, Brian at AvenueGray.com. I can go to my website. I can go on my Instagram. It's all at Avenue Gray.

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Yeah. I'm findable for sure. Okay.

(40:46 - 40:48)

Fantastic. Right. Well, thank you so much again for being here.

(40:48 - 40:54)

It was a really, really cool and insightful conversation. And I hope to see you soon. Great to talk to you.

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Thanks so much. Bye.