From Newsroom to Boardroom: Sam Oches on Tech, Talent & True Hospitality

Journalist‑turned‑industry‑insider Sam Oches (Editorial Director, Nation’s Restaurant News & Restaurant Hospitality) unpacks the post‑2024 shake‑up—why value promos are wearing thin, how tariffs could rewrite your P&L, and where the next fast‑casual boom will actually come from. We dig into:

• The two marketing paths every brand must pick: “irreverent fun” vs. “authentic consistency”
• Tableside tech, labor math, and the real future of full service
• How founders like Todd Graves & Peter Cancro keep culture alive at scale
• Sam’s career pivot, his best networking hacks, and the one metric he thinks operators still underrate
  
  
  

Stay to the end for Sam’s one‑sentence playbook to future‑proof any restaurant in the next five years.

Connect with our guest
 • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sam-oches-5923bb13/
• Instagram : https://www.instagram.com/connectfoodservice/
• Website: https://informaconnect.com/restaurant-leadership-conference/

Restaurant Leaders Unplugged with Sebastian Stahl

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Transcript

Sam Oches: [00:00:00] It's fun for God's sake. We're in the restaurant industry, we're doing food for a living.

It's creative, which I've always been a creative and I love that aspect of it. And and it changes every day. It's, the other thing is our jobs never, ever are dull or boring because every day there's some kind of change happening. 

Today, we'll explore his journey and the hidden potential in private dining and how tech is transforming restaurant operations. Welcome to the Restaurant Leaders Unplugged podcast, where real talks with restaurant leaders take center stage. Discover the challenges and victories that define success in the culinary world.

Dive into essential strategies from marketing to operations and gain insights that will transform your approach to your restaurant business. Don't just keep up, lead the way. Join me, your host, Sebastian Stahl, on this journey to excellence.

Sebastian Stahl: Alright, Sam, welcome to the Restaurant Leaders Unplugged Podcast. It's really a pleasure to have you here. I am sure that our conversation is gonna bring a lot of great things for our audience. So again, thank you for being here, Sam.

Ah, thanks Sebastian. It's a pleasure to be here, Sam. So let's start at the beginning, man. I don't know many people that might know your backstory 'cause you're in the industry. [00:01:00] Not, you're in it, but not in it at the same time. That's right. So tell us, share, share with us a little bit of your background, how you got started, with what you do and for people that might not know who you are.

Sam Oches: Yeah, happy to. Yeah. I'm usually on your side of this microphone, so it's nice to be on this side once in a while. Yeah, it's so my story is that I was a journalist. I knew I was gonna be a journalist from a young age, went to journalism school and college at Ohio University. And wanted to be a music journalist.

I'm a musician. I play the drums. I love music. I always wanted to be the next Great Rolling Stone columnist. Graduated from college though into the very early days of the Great Recession, and there were no jobs for journalists, certainly not music journalists. And so I had made a pivot in college to focus on business journalism so that I could actually have a paycheck waiting for me when I got outta college.

And then got ridiculously lucky that at the end of college, toward the toward graduation, I was applying for jobs all over the country. I. I found a listing for the associate editor role at QSR Magazine and I didn't really know [00:02:00] what any of that meant. I knew trade magazines 'cause I had really started focusing on those the last two years of college.

But I didn't know what the term QSR was. I looked it up and I'm like, I guess this has something to do with restaurants. I drove from Ohio down in North Carolina to interview for the job. I was just so desperate for something. Yeah. And connected with the editor at the time. Got the job a week after graduating from college.

I moved to North Carolina to become the associate editor at QSR, and then I was at QSR for 12 years and had the opportunity to rise the ranks up to editorial director of both QSR and FSR by the time I left. And early days of COVID. Got recruited by Informa and specifically Nations Restaurant News, which is under the informa umbrella.

And so that was almost four years ago. And so now I am officially editorial director at Nations Restaurant News and Restaurant Mag restaurant Hospitality, which is a publication for independent restaurateurs. And editor in chief of the two publications. And now I firmly believe I [00:03:00] am a restaurant professional.

I've spent 16 years now in this industry, which I love it. 

Sebastian Stahl: That's incredible sense. How did what's your perspective on that? When you were getting started with, once you got into restaurants, what really interests you and, to learn from restaurants or from restaurant?

From the industry itself. 

Sam Oches: Yeah. Restaurants, it's funny when I think about it now because when I started focusing on business journalism in college, yeah, I didn't really understand. That there is a trade publication for every industry. Every single industry has a publication of some kind that's keeping those professionals updated on news and insights.

And when I think back about it on it now I think to myself, I could have been a journalist, an editor for. Really random magazines that I don't know anything about. I was so lucky as to fall into restaurants, which I've been a customer of for my whole life. I never worked in restaurants when I was in high school and college.

I worked other odd jobs. So I never, I didn't have that familiarity, but I know restaurants very intimately as a customer. And coming into the job originally, I just leaned [00:04:00] into that fact that. Especially at QSR, I'm writing about fast food chains that I've grown up with, I know very well.

And then in those early days, seeing it from the other side, seeing it from the industry perspective and getting to know not only how these businesses run the ins and outs of the operations, but what kind of people run these restaurants, both from the corporate executive standpoint, but also at the local franchisee level and understanding at that point.

The hospitality industry is just good people. I just I mean it's hospitality, so you have to be by definition. But I always found that anybody I talked to from the CEO of the biggest chain to the owner of the smallest, independent, everybody to a person in general, gave me the time of day, was interested in what I had to say.

I had a good conversation with, and genuinely I felt like everybody in general just feels like good people, I fell in love with that and that's why I never wanna leave the restaurant industry is 'cause it's the best people. It's fun for God's sake. We're in the restaurant industry, we're doing food for a living.

It's [00:05:00] creative, which I've always been a creative and I love that aspect of it. And and it changes every day. It's, the other thing is our jobs never, ever are dull or boring because every day there's some kind of change happening. 

Sebastian Stahl: A hundred percent. A hundred percent Sam. So that's great, man.

And yes, I think we're. All friendly people for the most part in the restaurant for the most part. Yeah, that's right. A little bit of everything. Sam, your current role, this, listen, there's so many things happening now, right? We're gonna get into some of those details in a bit. But what are some of the most exciting or, disruptive trends that you're seeing in the industry today with everything that's going on?

Sam Oches: Yeah. Today it's so interesting because we went through such a heavy tech innovation period with COVID. In 22 and 23 especially, I think you just had such an emphasis on technology and now I see the restaurant industry really not pulling back on tech because obviously technology is never not gonna be a part of the restaurant industry.

But a lot of people starting to understand how much hospitality has to be a part of the equation, how much service has to be a part of it, how [00:06:00] much simplicity to a large degree has to be a part of it. And tech can accomplish a lot of that. Coming off of 2024, which is arguably one of the worst years, certainly the worst year, I think we've had since 2020 in COVID, the dark days of COVID.

Yeah. 2024 with inflation, customers stop going to restaurants, everybody's trying to figure out, how do I get 'em back, how do I get 'em back? Leaning into value, leaning into marketing. You and I are talking a couple days after Chili's re reported their results and just blows my mind that they pulled off 31.4%, same store sales growth on the back of really value marketing and TikTok and influencers and the cheese pull.

That was so indicative to me of what last year was and trying to figure out how do you get people's attention. So I guess to answer your question, like we went through that, we've figured out. Okay. Traffic. I think there's a lot of optimism that traffic is starting to stabilize, customers are starting to come back.

Inflation's coming down. Cautious optimism for 2025. So now this year for me it it's really seen these restaurants lean [00:07:00] into the relationship. How do I provide hospitality and a great experience. How do I bring that into loyalty? How do I increase frequency? And all of that is swimming around that sort of hospitality pool, right?

Because it's, it is providing that great experience, making sure they're happy, making sure they want to come back and using technology and loyalty programs to incentivize them to do that.

Sebastian Stahl: I think you touched on some really great points there, Simon. We're seeing the same thing, of course with our clients and just in general tech Yeah.

It had, its, point where it was all about that, right? And so many innovations with that. But now it's just going back to the experience that we were talking about value. And I think it's going back to hospitality, going back to the roots, right? That's what we do. Yeah. 'Cause without that, and it's okay, you can streamline operations as much as you want to, lower your cost.

But if you sacrifice hospitality, if you sacrificed what we're truly about. You're at a loss. You know what I mean? Totally. 

Sam Oches: And if I could give you some two, two examples here that are really interesting. We just had our America's favorite chains report that we partner with techno on. And so techno gives us the data on who these [00:08:00] chains are that Americans say are their favorites and, customer sentiment and, they have multiple categories that they are giving a score on. And it was so interesting because, five of the top 10 chains are steakhouses. And then a couple of the others are like Dutch Bros. Tropical smoothie chains that will tell that, that are really focused on hospitality. Dutch Bros is really into their bro ISAs and providing that unique experience.

Number one though, was nothing. Bunt cakes. And this one kind of surprised me because I've had maybe one nothing but pretty good. Experience good cakes for sure, but their hospitality number was off the charts. And I never knew this about that company, but they are very focused on hospitality.

And so what I learned from this, having steakhouses where you go for a good white tablecloth kind of experience and you're celebrating something and nothing bun cakes, you're celebrating something, going to get a cake for a celebration perhaps. But the through line of all of them is hospitality. And if you [00:09:00] provide great hospitality.

Then we have the data to show Americans are going to love you. They are going to, and they tell you they wanna, they don't want the human interaction. They tell you they want that kiosk in order through order ordering through their phone. And I think that's true before the experience. But if during the experience they get a human element, they get a great experience through the hospitality.

After that experience, I think they have had a better time than they thought they would have when they thought they didn't want a human involved. 

Sebastian Stahl: I. That's really eyeopening and it, but it doesn't really, it doesn't surprise me as much because you're right, Sam, like I've actually ordered from bun nothing bun cakes before.

And there is an experience to it. The way that the service, when you get there, how they have it, they presented like the whole process. I was surprised. Yeah. And it's, there's always they're always busy. Yeah. So that, but that's, that, that's super insightful. Thank you Sam. So Sam.

We were talking about, we're talking about biggest differentiators, or what's happening now, but with [00:10:00] what you're seeing with restaurants that are succeeding or, chains or groups or whatever it is, or independence what do you think is setting apart the ones that are succeeding from the ones that aren't?

Sam Oches: I think leadership is a big part of it. And that's a little bit, sometimes it's a little bit nebulous or sometimes maybe hard to define. But I'll tell you the four chains that impress me the most today and you'll know exactly what. The through line of those four are, and those four are Jersey Mikes, raising Cane's, Texas Roadhouse and Chick-fil-A.

And the through line of all of those is the founder presence. Now the Kathy family of Chick-fil-A, of course the grandson, Andrew Kathy is CEO today, Texas Roadhouse. Ken Taylor passed away a few years ago. I can tell you, having been to their headquarters, he's all over the place. He's, he's a guiding light of that restaurant company.

Then Todd Graves of raising cane's and Peter Can Crow Jersey. Mikes are still heavily involved in the day-to-day business of those brands. So those four brands have this sort of unfair advantage [00:11:00] of the founders still being very much a presence in the company's day. And, a founder is really a beating heart of a company.

It was their vision that got the brand here in the first place. But. If you extend that out to companies that aren't still founder led, but have a CEO that can really come to represent the passion and the drive, the vision for that company as the founder might have had. You see those kind of companies and you see it trickle down to throughout the systems to how they are able to succeed.

So another brand that made our top 10 for America's favorite chains. Was Foggo de Show and Fogo has built a ton of momentum in the last couple of years, outta left field. It's a 45-year-old brand out of Brazil. Been in the comp in the US for 27 years. But, I, to a lot of Americans, really not known until the last couple of years.

CEO Barry McGowan has been in a leadership position at this brand for 12 years and he was putting in time building. The cultural building blocks, the [00:12:00] leadership, that kind of infrastructure, the people infrastructure before they started going, stepping on that accelerator. And there throughout my career, there are countless examples of leaders in restaurant companies who you can just tell they set the tone.

And then it trickles down through the corporate ranks to the management, the middle management, to the store management, to the store level employees. And I just think that's, I don't know. That to me seems really critical. Setting a tone for the pace, the vision the, drive of your company and then building the structure so that tone resonates throughout the system.

I agree, Sam, that 

Sebastian Stahl: listen, and I think that's crucial at any level, what you just mentioned. And been in the industry myself. I know how hard that can be. 'Cause one thing is talking about it right at the upper level, but having that style of leadership or whatever you're preaching at the top, trickle down to the bottom, and everybody buying into it.

That's a different story. We [00:13:00] had it was something, some of the struggles and some of the challenges we experienced when I was, in the business, with the restaurant group in my, in Florida because we would have these conversations, how do we make this real again, at the restaurant you were saying, founders press it.

So even at some point when you get big and you start growing. That presence that you had at the beginning when you were small, being at the restaurants and nobody, everybody's name and all that stuff, man, that becomes a real challenge. But how these guys are doing it at scale and like how you're describing it and having the systems and the structure in place to make that happen, I think that's key.

Sam Oches: Totally. Yeah. Scaling any of this is hard. And I'll tell you what, I don't like the word culture. I think it got pretty abused over the past several years. 'cause everybody recognized, hey, we need a good culture. But even bad actors are using the word culture, it's more of an, you know it when you see it.

You can't say culture is like this, that, and that. It's more like embodied in the people who are leading the company. Yes. One of your biggest challenges [00:14:00] if you're a founder of a restaurant company or if you're, in charge of building that company, it's recruiting the right people to surround yourself with who know what you don't know, but also embody the same values that you do so that you're all on the same page for what that culture, or whatever you wanna call it, is gonna be.

And then recruiting managers to reflect that as well. And everybody has to be on that same page so that they can impart the same values. And again, a company like Chick-fil-A, if you wanna know why they do $9 million per restaurant you just gotta go into a restaurant and into a Chick-fil-A and look at how happy they all are.

They just all genuinely seem to want to be there. And you can tell that comes from above. That is the leadership trickling down values to the store level employees of this is a good job. We are lucky to do it, and we're all on the same page here. 

And 

Sebastian Stahl: I think that goes back 

Sam Oches: to what you 

Sebastian Stahl: were just, you're talking about.

It's, which is key. I think it's hiring, right? Yeah. And so labor challenges all over, over the place. And they're, I think they're gonna continue to be, especially with, raising costs and all that stuff that's [00:15:00] happening. From your perspective, Sam, how have restaurants.

Been successful navigating, hiring, retention. And what you just talked about, culture shifts. 

Sam Oches: Yeah. It's hard, right? Especially at the store level, that's really hard to recruit, folks to run your restaurants who. Are gonna stick around for a while and not just bolt once they get a better paying job.

To hire people who are going to be a friendly face and to embody those values that come from on top, embody the same values to the customer. Because, I've heard enough people, enough leaders in the restaurant industry say this to me to know that this is so true, which is if you take care of your employees, they're gonna take care of your guests, right?

And so it starts with of course having an appealing an appealing work environment that employees will want to be in. So if you're competing with the same employees as all the other restaurants in your community, of course. It doesn't hurt to invest in technology that makes their jobs easier.

It doesn't hurt to pay better than anybody else. Of course, that gets a little bit [00:16:00] prohibitive in some of these CIR circumstances. But then to invest, continuously invest show when you're recruiting, show these employees, Hey, we're not just gonna pay you well, we're not just gonna make your job easier through strategic tech investments and operational changes.

We're also going to say, six months from now you're gonna get a bonus. Or, you, if you do a good job in this timeframe, we might promote you to this position. Help them understand how this can be a long-term position, how they can make more money over time. And then a bigger picture goal too is always how to show them this could be a career.

If you're able to recruit strong leaders, show them that management could be in their future. A general manager is making six figures, and if you help a 18-year-old know that if you stick around through college and put in, a few years here. You could be making six figures in your twenties someday.

I just don't think the industry does enough of that. Telling that story Yeah. To folks. So telling that story in your recruitment, really putting your money where your mouth is in terms of actually investing them and telling, doing what you said you were gonna do filling your talent pipeline with strong leaders.

[00:17:00] All of those I think are the necessary steps to make sure you're recruiting and retaining the right employees. The last thing I'll say too is like Chick-fil-A. I've always been struck by the fact that it feels like Chick-fil-A has the luxury of hiring every local high school's honor roll.

It just feels because they, people wanna work there, right? Like it's just a good place to work. And I, I. You wanna be that person, right? And when you get that one solid, 17-year-old who's just a good kid, hardworking, good work ethic, have them bring their friends. 'cause they probably hang out with those same people, right?

Sebastian Stahl: Oh, definitely Sam that's great stuff. So you mentioned just something very important and I think you, in your role could and I think the people in your role is what can contribute to this so much. In what you just mentioned is seeing this as a career opportunity, especially when we're talking about low level or entry positions, at the restaurant, because they're still see it as a transient type of thing.

Okay, I'm not talking about store tables. Oh, I'm gonna work at a restaurant. [00:18:00] And they don't see what you're talking about. They don't see the path forward. And we face that same, issue because, okay, how do we communicate this? And I think it was in. Something that we could solve a at a local level or at a company level.

I think this is a much bigger thing, which people like you and other people that are in this industry can help shape this and to turn it into, Hey guys, this is not just, a transient type of thing where you're getting into restaurant business. This can be become a really beautiful career.

Sam Oches: Totally. Yeah. And it's so interesting 'cause again, you don't wanna necessarily just make it about money, but if it's a factor of money and people think, oh, a restaurant is just burger flipping for minimum wage, really understanding. First off, nowadays, no nobody's paying minimum wage.

'cause you can't compete in that regard. But again, by the time if you really put yourself out there and invest your time and have a strong work ethic that the restaurant industry does lead to high paying jobs. But look at it from the other way. Because like I think if you look at the CEO and people [00:19:00] might say, oh, the CEO EO, they just come out the CEO factory and you put this person in a suit in the job and whatever.

But the vast majority of CEOs in the restaurant industry started. As cashiers in the restaurant industry the number of stories of CEOs in this company that started as a busboy, cashier, whatever it is, and they worked their way up and they just proved time and time again that they were strong leaders and now they're in these positions where I.

Yes, they're wealthy, but they're also influential. I'm sure they're deeply satisfied with the work they've done. And by the way, again, you're working in the restaurant industry, so you're guaranteed to have some fun along the way. I, that it's just a story that's not told so often. And so that, that bottom rung mentality, you gotta get rid of that.

You have to say, no, this might be your first rung. And 50% of Americans, it is, they start in the restaurant industry, but there is a rung after that. There is a rung after that and there's a ladder that keeps on going and that is available to vast majority of Americans without necessarily a formal education.[00:20:00] 

Sebastian Stahl: Yeah. Yeah, a hundred percent. So Sam, I know you host a podcast too, called The Takeaway. Yeah. And I know you talk to a lot of people in this industry, a lot of leaders. So one is, can you share that bit of a story of maybe the most repricing or thought provoking insights you've gotten from these interviews?

Sam Oches: It's interesting. Yeah. Yeah. I try to interview a wide variety of people because the tagline for my show is that it's interviewing the restaurant industry's most influential decision makers, which was my way of, of kinda keeping it broad, who I brought onto the show because I'm always intrigued by founders of smaller companies in particular.

Sebastian, when you and I met several years ago in Miami, I was traveling the country hosting these meetups for founders of fast casual because there was a real energy in that regard and a lot of people out there who are starting these exciting, fast casual companies. And I still am really intrigued by entrepreneurs because it's people who are bringing big ideas.

I'm less intrigued by the very buttoned up reading from a [00:21:00] script kind of interview, right? That's like what you're doing. You wanna have a, let's sit down and have a cup of coffee kind of conversation, not a here are all my questions in advance, and they write out a written answer and then just read from that, which has happened before.

So I would say, as far as answering your question, I think some of the, going back to what I was saying at the beginning, which is no matter if it's a founder of a 2, 3, 4, 5 unit company or the CEO of a company, everybody tends to be facing the same challenges. This is the same industry.

And they're thinking about the same things they're excited about by the same things. And I love that because it's. Everybody has a different story. So every episode I have is distinctly different because everybody's way of getting to these things is different. And it's through a different filter, whether it's a pizza chain or a sushi brand or burger concept, full service, limited service, whatever it is, everybody brings I think ends up at that kind of same.

Point where they have the same challenges and same opportunities and and so it's the stories that I hear [00:22:00] from how they got to that point that make the, each episode really interesting. But yeah, look it's a cool having a podcast, as I'm sure is a cool opportunity to meet people that you might not have otherwise met and get into some subject matter that you might not have otherwise gotten to with them.

Sebastian Stahl: Yeah. Yeah. I think it's a it's a great way of learning. A lot too. 'cause you, you get to hear all these insights from everybody and you're talking again to leaders from the top to bottom and you just get to have these in really interesting conversations as we do. 

Sam Oches: Totally. Yeah. And as a, as an aside, so this week a little bit of a preview of what's to come from me.

I'm doing something with some very significant CEOs in this industry. We'll announce more@nrn.com in a couple of weeks. And but I will tell you as a little teaser, one of them is the CEO of Wendy's. And this week I spent some time with him. I'm wearing my Wendy's shirt here. You can't tell.

But and it was cool. And we framed everything as like we're talking and we, he and I met face to face and we're talking just like two people again, sitting down for a cup of coffee, would talk. I threw in some questions. What's your favorite TV show? [00:23:00] What's your favorite sports team?

And I love that you can humanize people and disarm them by getting into those kinds of things. Right now, I'm not gonna tell you the answers to those questions for Kirk Tanner, the CEO of Wendy's. You gotta go listen to the episode, watch the episode here in March. So that's a little teaser. But like that kind, again, that humanizing people, because we're all in the restaurant industry.

We're all very human beings in this industry. Yeah. Yeah. That's a fun part of it. That's awesome, Sam. So what's your favorite TV show, Sam? Ah, I knew you would turn that back on me. Oh, man, I can't even pick just one. There's too much TV on nowadays, right? The one that my wife and I have certainly binged the most is that traders Reality Show lately.

Oh. Highly recommend on Peacock, and it's, I don't know, Alan Cumming hosts. It's a, it's just good stuff. So we're sucking for reality stuff for sure. With kids, with small kids, it's like when you get to TV time at eight o'clock, you're just brain dead. You just need something to fill the few brain dead.

Oh 

Sebastian Stahl: man. A 

Sam Oches: hundred 

Sebastian Stahl: percent. Not just

Sam Oches: what 

Sebastian Stahl: I'll watch [00:24:00] whatever, man. It doesn't matter. 

Sam Oches: Oh yeah, I know. Same, right? I'm just like glazed, look at my face. 

Sebastian Stahl: Yeah. Yeah. So Sam in terms of, let's talk a little bit about marketing. Yeah. 'cause I'm sure you also interview people in the industry.

What do you think the most compelling restaurant brands, what separates them from the rest in terms of storytelling, market positioning? What do you think they're doing? What do you see they're doing that that does not only sets them apart, but makes them, helps 'em be successful? 

Sam Oches: I think there is probably two types of brands.

There's two paths you can take with brands that are I would say distinctly different but with your marketing messaging, and I have a couple examples for each, and I'll start with the first path is the brands that take big swings and have a little fun with it. And a very easy example here is Taco Bell.

Taco Bell. Is, textbook, how to really innovate in your marketing, how to have a lot of fun in your marketing, how to be tongue in cheek. They're partnering with celebrities all the time. They're doing kind of wackadoodle things, that maybe other brands can't do, they can get [00:25:00] away with, and that's because.

Americans, I don't wanna say they don't have high expectations of Taco Bell, but in their mind, taco Bell represents a, an irreverent fun brand. And so Taco Bell has license to go out and do some crazy stuff that fits within that irreverence and that fun. And so they're out here doing crazy things.

And another one I mentioned earlier, chilies. Chili's, I think is a brand that, because it's a legacy brand and it had several years where it doesn't, wasn't doing very well. Now under CMO, George Felix and CEO, Kevin Hockman, they're doing some kind of fun stuff, especially through social media.

They're capitalizing on what they're Gen Z followers are saying about the brand and having some fun with it. And they're big swings, but they're landing as you saw in the Chili's sales results. So that's the one path I think for marketing that really works for brands, which is having fun. Not taking themselves too seriously, being tongue in cheek, really leaning into [00:26:00] that from a social media perspective and letting the brand be owned by the people, right?

Taco Bell doesn't own its brand. The people own the Taco Bell brand and Taco Bell just follows that. So that's the one path. The other path I would say is. Authenticity and it is the, we don't veer off the path of what this brand is all about because we are a very clearly defined brand. And so like a Texas Roadhouse would be an example of that.

They don't even do national marketing. They're all about local marketing because it's the authentic sort of Texas Roadhouse way and how it resonates in each local community in which they operate. They're very consistent on how they market that, right? They don't innovate a lot. They don't change their menu.

They're not trying all these bells and whistles. They're just gonna do what they do over and over again. And again, go back to that authenticity and what the founder Kent Taylor set for that brand. And it works really well for them because, if they don't have to take big chances, they can just be consistent in their customer's lives and the small communities they operate, they're just gonna do well over and over again.

So to me it's that the sort of the irreverence and fun and [00:27:00] authentic and consistent. 

Sebastian Stahl: That's good stuff, Sam. I agree with you. It's just what do you think that smaller restaurant operators, right? Because we're gonna have an audience of broad people in the industry here Sure.

Can do. From your perspective and the people that you've, spoken to. I have my opinion on this, the course of my marketing guy, but how people can make this real at a smaller level, let's say. A couple of, when somebody has 1, 2, 3 restaurants. Sure. How can they, do what you're talking about and make it real and successful?

Because, again, limited budget, eh, maybe they don't have the right people in place to actually execute this properly. Any insights on that? 

Sam Oches: Starting small for sure. And the ability to have tools like social media certainly helps. It's funny, I was talking to the founders of the granola bar out of Connecticut a few weeks ago, and I recently had them on my podcast.

I. And Julie and Dana, they're, they were a riot. Lots of fun to talk to and they started their restaurant [00:28:00] 13 years ago and it was before TikTok, before Instagram had, like reels and stuff. Twitter was around, of course in Facebook, but they had no pressure to start on social media because.

They just were like it's, doesn't exist. And people, word of mouth was helping to get the restaurant off the ground. And so it's interesting 'cause they now reflect on social media as that's icing on the cake. They continue to do well via word of mouth. Anything they do on social media is icing on the cake for a smaller brand today, if you're just getting off the ground, unfortunately it's just not the.

Case, word of mouth is always powerful, don't get me wrong. And I think if you build some loyal customers early on and encourage them to spread the word about the restaurant and just make sure the experience is good enough that they wanna share it with their friends and family. But you, I just think you can't miss the opportunity that's on social media and plugging in with local influencers and making sure they're coming to your restaurant and sharing about it and.

That can be micro influencers. You don't have to go get Keith Lee to come promote your restaurant. You can have [00:29:00] somebody with 5,000, 10,000 followers locally based who comes into your restaurant and has a meal and shares about it, and then, their followers want to check it out. So I think starting small, recognizing those people in your community, whether it's social media influencers or just regular, influencers in relationships.

Make sure they're coming into your restaurant and spreading the word and just you're having a, you have a presence on your social media constantly so that people when, who spend all their time on social media you're gonna be front and center. 

Sebastian Stahl: Yeah. Yeah. You just mentioned super something, super important, authenticity, Sam, because I think that's key.

And when restaurant operators, when they're first open the restaurant, they have to be really clear in who they are, I think, and what makes 'em unique, what makes 'em different. And that's what you gotta leverage to com and communicate everywhere. You know what I mean? With these guys material we're talking about the cheese pool, right?

Like they, they figured out that was gonna be something. And but each restaurant is different. It might be and it might be not just one dish, but also the experience. It might be the people. There's certain things like [00:30:00] that. 

Sam Oches: Totally. And you don't wanna feel like you're just jumping on a bandwagon, right?

If there's some social media trend that's been out there for a couple of days and you're like, oh, us do, it feels inauthentic, right? You don't. You don't want it to be like that. But you're right. Showcase your people if they're willing to be showcased. Show your food. Be true to what you are as a con, as a restaurant brand, as a concept.

And and show the community why it should matter. And by the way, it never hurts to have community participation. Whatever organizations are in your neighborhood, whether it's a charity, a business, whatever school. Get involved because, I'm sure you feel like as a parent, even tonight my wife and two older kids are going to the school to participate in a local franchise of a pottery thing, yeah. And they partnered with the school and they're getting all these students to come in, and that's gonna be impactful. So connect with the local businesses and organizations so that you have that foothold in whatever way that looks like. 

Sebastian Stahl: Sam, looking at the, the biggest industry shake ups, like what's happening [00:31:00] now, like franchising shifts, many innovation, delivery wars, like all of that stuff.

What is one trend that you think the industry's underestimating right now 

Sam Oches: underestimating? Interesting. Underestimating, I would say, let's say if we overlay. What's happening right now to what happened 15 years ago with a recession. 

I think people are underestimating how creative this industry could be in the next three years.

Because, and I think maybe you experienced some of this with your businesses, but 20 13, 14, 15 were some of the most. Exciting creative years for the restaurant industry because they were on the heels of the recession, and so oh eight through 2012 was, recession, respond to recession with value and marketing and discounting, and then rebound from that.

With more creative a more [00:32:00] creative product. And how that manifested 15 years ago was the advent of the fast casual industry. Yeah. You had Chipotle and Panera, but all of these really vibrant, exciting, fast casual concepts launched in the wake of the recession because what they said is, Hey, customers right now just have a ton of discounted value options at fast food places, and they are sick of we're gonna come out with something a little bit better, and it's still gonna be valued because it's a higher price point, but it's not as high as casual dining. And we're going to, and it's more authentic. It's often global. These millennials who are coming into their discretionary income are gonna be excited and go be adventurous and try it.

I think the same ingredients are at play right now. Where we went through COVID. And we went through the value, then everybody stopped going to restaurants. Now we're in the value marketing phase of things. And I think the resp, I think you're gonna have discount value fatigue, and I think you're gonna get to a place where there is a premium placed on more exciting, [00:33:00] adventurous concepts.

So my money's on 26, 27, 28 being a very. Creative period. Now, there's a lot of variables at play here. A lot think on the day that we just heard there's gonna be tariffs on Mexico and Canada. Yep. Yep. I that look variables that I, who knows what that's gonna do to the restaurant. Not optimistic about that, but let's just say.

We have a landing might not be a soft landing, but let's just say in 25 there's a landing of some kind from the recession and whatever post COVID stuff we had. The rebound, I think will be very vibrant and exciting because by necessity people will have fatigue for the value that they have been looking for the last couple of years.

Sebastian Stahl: Agreed, Sam, we're actually already seeing that because I think there's two things that we're seeing is, and this is what you're talking about, streamlined, super streamlined operations, right? Limited venues, still great [00:34:00] food, so you can deal with raising cost, inflation, labor, all that stuff.

And then the other ones that are leaning towards the experience and the super creative stuff and just providing value through that way. It won't be an as an often as in terms of, visits, but that's what's happening. You know what I mean? Already. So what do you foresee, Sam, I mean for, of course for this year with, you just talked about tariffs.

Logically in my mind I'm thinking, okay, if you're putting tariffs in these countries. Everything that was imported to, to the US which was more accessible, everything's gonna go up in price. How are you gonna offset that? You know what I mean? And so already in a city like Miami, Sam, everything is already crazy expensive.

Yeah, we used to get a fast cash for 15 bucks that there's just not freaking way. It's 25, whatever. You know what I mean? So it's man, and now this thing happening, what is it? What is it gonna do? And then [00:35:00] also. For, consumer spending I think is still, that's my take that it would probably go down, but what's your take on that?

Sam Oches: Yeah, it's tough and this is unprecedented as the last five years have been. And I don't know, 'cause think about avocados. If Mexico's about to get a 25% tariff on avocados and we get 90% of our avocados from Mexico. Insane. What do you do with that? I, the avocados are just gonna go away. I, it's not gonna be worth it for so many restaurants.

It, we're all gonna learn in real time, and I have to hope that the Trump administration learns that this maybe wasn't. A great idea. Yeah. You know that this isn't gonna work. It's gonna hurt businesses. Yeah, but I don't, but we don't know. 'cause we, I, we just haven't experienced anything like this.

We'll go through that real those lessons in real time and figure this out. But hey, if you play this out long term, and let's say the tariffs stick, food costs are gonna skyrocket. And you have to adjust your p and l somewhere. [00:36:00] Labor is. Is impossible right now as far as the competition for labor and what you're paying.

I suspect people start looking for more investment in technology for automation and this is gonna hurt jobs, this is either, either through restaurants who can't make, who can't survive and have to close, or through positions that are cut purely because people start looking at I've gotta find savings somewhere because my food cost is off the chart.

I'm gonna have to take my labor cost down to adjust for that. So either I automate, I replace with a kiosk, I make somebody, find a way for somebody to do two jobs at once. I don't know what that looks like. 'cause obviously that's an expensive investment in itself, but a lot of the chains, you might go that direction if they can invest in that.

Sebastian Stahl: Yeah. Yeah man. And I think especially for, of course fast catch is gonna be a little bit easier to implement, but what's gonna happen to your full service restaurants? I don't know, eh, crazy times. 

Sam Oches: One thing I have heard a lot about lately going back to your question about things that are maybe [00:37:00] underestimated or disruptive is tableside ordering in full service restaurants.

I think you're going to see a lot more of that, especially now as full service restaurants. And by the way, we haven't even talked about how full service will be. Rest restaurants will be affected at the beverage level. Think about wine, think about the amount of alcohol that's imported, right?

Then think about the trend in non-alcoholic beverage. So non-alcoholic beverage is taking off. I don't know what's gonna happen with the surgeon general warning that, it could cause cancer. 'cause that's a whole other thing. Oh yeah. But then so you have these kind of, sort of two trends in alcohol where younger customers especially are drinking less.

Now there's some scared that it's, maybe gonna cause cancer. And now a lot of your alcohol's gonna, be at the risk of a tariff. How much profit margin from a full service restaurant comes from alcohol A lot. So this is, so those are the sticky things, and that's where again, I come back to tableside ordering is.

It's, I think it's a good change for the industry because a, it [00:38:00] gives customers that familiar, I'm gonna scan a QR code or do a thing with my phone or just engage with technology. Like I'm so used to it, all the other businesses I go to. But b, allow for some hospitality. 'cause you still get a table touch, you still, somebody brings your food out, they still engage with you.

But you can have less staffing because a lot of the experience is taken by technology. So I think that's a positive for the industry, but it's just you, we just don't know how this is gonna shake out once food costs just really blow up. Yeah. 

Sebastian Stahl: Yeah, definitely Sam. Listen, we'll see what happens and I know that our industry is extremely resilient and creative and will find a way around it.

A hundred percent. 

Sam Oches: A hundred 

Sebastian Stahl: percent. Sam, couple of personal questions. Sure. You've been in more in major outlets, put it in New York, the New York Times, CNBC. What has been the most memorable or impactful moment in your career that has helped you, shaped the conversation in the industry?

Sam Oches: A lot of speaking [00:39:00] opportunities I think have been helpful in that regard. Have had opportunities, our own events that we own. Restaurant leadership conference create the National Restaurant Show. Having some stage time at those events has always been. Great, because it's a way to meet new people, get in front of folks.

I have had the opportunity to speak at events like South by Southwest and and some other outside events. And those are always great just because of the way I would, I, that I can get in front of new audiences perhaps. Yeah. But I would say too the meetups that I have hosted in started hosting these in 2015.

Now with nrn, we've done some, we call them our create road shows 'cause they lead up to our create national conference. And those have been very similar where you go into a city you host a networking reception with our road shows. We've done some educational panels within them as well.

But those always. I meet so many people that way. I, and probably in, in the last 10 years, I've hosted 30 of these kinds of events that are just smaller reception [00:40:00] style events in local cities, and I get the flavor of the city. I meet people I never would've met otherwise. I. Being an editor in chief of a National Restaurant magazine, people tend to be intimidated or think that I'm inaccessible, which is not true.

My email's everywhere. Please email me. I'll respond. Connect with me on LinkedIn. I, I don't care. I'm not in, 

Sebastian Stahl: that was gonna be my last question, but Yeah. 

Sam Oches: Yeah. Connect with me because I love how connect, and they don't, I think they often think too. I just have three restaurants. Like I'm not important, but No, you are, I'm, I, every restaurant has a voice and we wanna be, sharing that voice of all the restaurateurs in our publications.

And so getting out into the industry, into these cities and having these receptions, and I usually spend a lot of hours recruiting people to these. I just go on Yelp, go on Google, find what restaurants that are in the area, email them, social media, whatever. We usually have anywhere from 50 to a hundred people who come.

Then it's a community that we are building. Yes. Together. And I've been able to build a great network that way. [00:41:00] Make life lifelong friendships in some cases that way. And so that's been the best how many years ago? Here we are. You and I was probably eight years ago, right?

That I hosted that one Miami one for sure. Like this stuff lasts a long time, if I were to turn that into kind of an advice for your listeners, it's Yeah, it is. Get out of your silo, right? Because often when I meet restaurant leaders, founders especially, but even executives they're really heads down on their own company.

Yeah. Their own thing. They go to conferences, but maybe they're it's awkward to meet people, but I'm telling you, expand your boundaries, meet people at other restaurant companies, meet people in your same position, whether you're A-C-E-O-A-C-M-O, a founder. We have a great Nest platform we call it that is for.

Restaurant leaders of we have a nest for every title. So if you're a CEO, we have a CEO Nest, and those are. Virtual calls every month that you can come part, participate in, and they'll have some in-person components too. Super cool. It's building a community, right? Because this is third largest industry in the country behind government and education or something like that, [00:42:00] and but. It's a trillion dollar industry with a million restaurants. It's big in scope, but it's a small world once you get out and meet people. So I guess that's just to turn that into advice for everybody. Get out, meet everybody, network, because we're good people. Yeah. Again, going back to the beginning and all of us want to connect with each other.

Sebastian Stahl: Yeah. So that was actually leading into my next question, Sam. I think that's great advice because listen, we, I think all as restaurant owners, I've been there as well, same as, in the business. Different businesses we're like this, right? And we're doing our thing. We're heads down, but.

Most of the business and that comes, or a lot of the business that comes, it's through building relationships, but it doesn't matter where you're at. You know what I mean? And I know it's tough sometimes, depending on the, if your position but that's the way to go, a hundred percent.

And it's all about meeting people. Sam, if you could, this is might my last question also, if Sure. If you could give one piece of advice. You've talked to so many people in the industry. Salmon, you probably had, I don't know, many thousands of conversations with restaurant owners and. CEOs, all types of people in this industry.

What would be one piece of [00:43:00] advice that you would give a restaurant owner right now, an independent restaurant coming to you, say, Hey, Sam, everything that you hear from everybody, what would be a piece of advice, kind of future proof my business for the next five, 10 years. 

Sam Oches: Oh boy. Hard to boil it down to one.

One of them is take yourself seriously. 'Cause again, going back to what I was just saying now, which is it can feel intimidating. You feel like you're just a drop in the bucket. I. Take yourself and your business seriously. Remember that you have a voice and that people want to hear it.

Because I think when you do plug into, whether it's myself or my peers in media, once you get a foothold in front of people, I. You'll find that everybody wants to know more about you and they and it really benefits your business once you get it out there. And don't just hide on the street corner where you run your business, right?

So take yourself seriously. Definitely to your point, build relationships with your peers. Don't look at other restaurateurs as competitors. You're all in the same business. Customers can [00:44:00] eat at their restaurant tomorrow and your restaurant today, right? Work together and share best practices.

We try to facilitate that through our content certainly through these Nest pla, this nest platform that we're building, bringing people together so they can help each other. So that's what I would just say. So get out, meet people, work together, and and don't treat yourself like just some small business.

'cause you've got a big voice if you just go find it.

Sebastian Stahl: That's great, Sam. Great advice. Sam lastly, I know you just mentioned it, but just it stays at the end also, like where can they find you people now, so basically any restaurant can reach out to you. Sure. What's your email?

How do they get in touch? Yeah, 

Sam Oches: bring it on. You can email me at sam dot oas@informa.com. Our parent company, I-N-F-O-R-M a.com. But I'm on LinkedIn. I'm the only Sam oas as far as I know, possibly in this entire world. So it's not hard to find me. Just find me on LinkedIn. Connect with me there and go listen to my podcast.

It's called Takeaway with Sam, oas all, wherever you listen to the podcast, including on YouTube. Yeah, subscribe and and reach out, start a conversation because we [00:45:00] have lots of ways to plug in. And, I am always happy to find those ways that, to plug you into whatever product it is that makes the most sense for you.

Awesome. 

Sebastian Stahl: Sam, again, thank you so much. That was great. It was really great to have you. It's a pleasure. And anyways, hope to see you in person soon. Thank you.